My first and last professional MS rig

[Welkin]

I'm going to get my first professional MS rig mainly for sound effects but also for music recording and I'd appreciate some input as I won't be able to get all of these mics for testing and I have to limit my options. I know that these mics have been discussed extensively but I still haven't been able to find the sweet spot for my needs especially because the options get cheaper in a somewhat linear fashion.

The price range for the following options is between 1230 and 2340 euros (VAT deducted, prices from Thomann). I can afford any of them but getting an expensive option means that I can't afford a Sennheiser MKH416 and another blimp which I also intend to get at some point.

I want to get a pair that has a balanced sound and low self noise, something that works in any situation and something that I don't need to switch to anything better any time soon, preferably never.


1) Sennheiser MKH40 + Sennheiser MKH30 = 2340 € (without the clip)

Pros: Sort of an industry standard. The best fit between M and S mics.
Cons: Expensive!

2) Sennheiser MKH8040 + Sennheiser MKH30 = 2190 €

Pros: Some people seem to prefer the sound of MKH8040 over MKH40. A bit cheaper than with the MKH40.
Cons: Still expensive. The mics are physically different, I don't know if that's a problem.

3) Sennheiser MKH8040 + MKH8030 = price between options 2 and 4

Pros: Might be the perfect MS setup.
Cons: The MKH8030 isn't and might never be available.

4) Sennheiser MKH8040 + Neumann KM120 = 1880 €

Pros: People are using this combination and it seems to work fine. Cheaper than with the MKH30. Both are round mics with the same finish.
Cons: Mics from two different manufacturers. S mic not RF condenser.

5) Neumann KM140 + Neumann KM120 = 1680 €

Pros: Both mics from the same lineup. Considerably cheaper than the Sennheisers.
Cons: Not RF condensers.

6) Neumann KM184 + Neumann KM120 = 1450 €

Pros: Getting to a reasonable price range. I'm not sure if the difference between a KM184 and a KM140 justifies the difference in price.
Cons: Not RF condencers.

7) Beyerdynamic MC930 + Neumann KM120 = 1230 €

Pros: Affordable. I already have two MC930s and I could use the MS pair with the MC930s as matching outriggers or ambience mics for location recording.
Cons: The biggest difference between the M and S mics. Not RF condencers. Some people seem to think that the MC930 is as good or better than the KM184 but in any case it's not as good as the MKH8040/MHK40.

[crussom]

I can only comment on the mics that I've used:

The MKH 30/40 combo is really very nice. I'm a big Sennheiser fan and own several of their mics. Probably the lowest noise mics you will ever find. Very rugged. The 40 does have a pretty pronounced proximity effect, which can sometimes be cool, other times not. Also, they seem to pick up low end like crazy. You'll be able to hear every air conditioner that is on in the city when you go out to record I usually use a low cut outdoors. I don't actually own a 30, I will use one of my MKH800's as the side mic with my MKH40, they match quite well.

Neumann KM140/120 also very nice. And under-rated in my opinion. They have more noise then the Sennheisers, but I never found it to be a problem. I used on various sound sources (including ambiences) and always liked the results. I sold my pair when I slimmed down my kit and they are the only pieces of audio gear that I've ever sold and regretted.

I've never used the MKH8000 series, but if they sound anything like the MKH800 or MKH40, then they would be great mics to own. Wish they'd hurry up and make the MKH8030 already.

Honestly, the only way to know what will work for you is to try as many of these as you can.

[Welkin]

Thanks Chuck, that's exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for.

Originally Posted by crussom

The 40 does have a pretty pronounced proximity effect, which can sometimes be cool, other times not. Also, they seem to pick up low end like crazy. You'll be able to hear every air conditioner that is on in the city when you go out to record I usually use a low cut outdoors.

You are talking about the MKH40, not the MKH8040? Isn't the lower range of the MKH8040 supposed be extended comparing to the MKH40? If the MKH40 works like that then I wonder why people don't seem to think that the bottom of the MKH8040 is too much.

Neumann KM140/120 also very nice. And under-rated in my opinion. They have more noise then the Sennheisers, but I never found it to be a problem.

Are you comparing specifications or have you gotten into situations where the noise was noticeable (even if it wasn't a problem)? Do you think it's possible to record professional ambiences with the Neumanns or are the Sennheisers the only option for recording extremely silent sources?

I sold my pair when I slimmed down my kit and they are the only pieces of audio gear that I've ever sold and regretted.

Why do you regret selling them if you have the Sennheisers? Are there situations where you would rather use the Neumanns?

I've never used the MKH8000 series, but if they sound anything like the MKH800 or MKH40, then they would be great mics to own. Wish they'd hurry up and make the MKH8030 already.

I read somewhere that there isn't going to be a MKH8030 after all but I don't know if that's an official statement.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Welkin

1) Sennheiser MKH40 + Sennheiser MKH30 = 2340 €

A classic.

2) Sennheiser MKH8040 + Sennheiser MKH30 = 2190 €

Probably becoming a classic.

3) Sennheiser MKH8040 + MKH8030 = price between options 2 and 4

Would be a classic if 8030 was available.
MKH 80x0 series are sort of future-proof in there being a digital output stage option.

4) Sennheiser MKH8040 + Neumann KM120 = 1880 €

Pros: People are using this combination and it seems to work fine. Cheaper than with the MKH30. Both are round mics with the same finish.
Cons: Mics from two different manufacturers. S mic not RF condenser.

I'm known for not making a fuss about non-RF mics. Nobody I know has reported any issues with Neumanns. Two diferent manufacturers isn't a bad thing by itself. Both are highly respected companies who make clean mics.

5) Neumann KM140 + Neumann KM120 = 1680 €

Pros: Both mics from the same lineup. Considerably cheaper than the Sennheisers.
Cons: Not RF condensers.

6) Neumann KM184 + Neumann KM120 = 1450 €

Pros: Getting to a reasonable price range. I'm not sure if the difference between a KM184 and a KM140 justifies the difference in price.
Cons: Not RF condencers.

Re RF mics see above. KM 184 is the fixed capsule version of the 140, and has updated electronics (and therefore slightly better noise figures). The price difference comes from the modular approach. If you don't need to exchange capsules, you don't need the 140.

7) Beyerdynamic MC930 + Neumann KM120 = 1230 €

Pros: Affordable. I already have two MC930s and I could use the MS pair with the MC930s as matching outriggers or ambience mics for location recording.
Cons: The biggest difference between the M and S mics. Not RF condencers. Some people seem to think that the MC930 is as good or better than the KM184 but in any case it's not as good as the MKH8040/MHK40.

930 is less "bright", but it's more colored off-axis. You mustn't use the 184 too close. It's not intended to be used 2 inches in front of a guitar cab.

[stuartprovine]

I have an MKH-50/30 rig. Wanted the extra directionality for the mid element when recording stuff in semi-noisy environments. Good setup, has served me well.

[crussom]

Originally Posted by Welkin

You are talking about the MKH40, not the MKH8040? Isn't the lower range of the MKH8040 supposed be extended comparing to the MKH40? If the MKH40 works like that then I wonder why people don't seem to think that the bottom of the MKH8040 is too much.

I've never worked with the 8040, but I know with my mkh40 and my mkh800's the bottom can be too much at times.

Originally Posted by Welkin

Are you comparing specifications or have you gotten into situations where the noise was noticeable (even if it wasn't a problem)? Do you think it's possible to record professional ambiences with the Neumanns or are the Sennheisers the only option for recording extremely silent sources?

I'm not saying that the Neumanns are noisy, just that the Sennheisers are insanely now noise. I have recorded ambiences with Neumann KM120/140 and they sound great. I also do a lot of recording with my Neumann RSM191. I will use the Sennheisers vs the Neumann on the quietest of sources because I know their self noise is so low and at times you can hear it with the Neumanns. Again, the noise is never really a problem and I'm talking when recording VERY quiet stuff. Neumann mics sound great.

Originally Posted by Welkin

Why do you regret selling them if you have the Sennheisers? Are there situations where you would rather use the Neumanns?

Honestly, if I live out my whole life with only my Sennheisers I'll be fine. I just listen back to the recordings that I did with the Neumanns and like the sound. I'm a mic junkie, I want everything

The Sennheisers and Neumanns are great mics and sound really good. Each has their own sound to them but neither will serve you wrong.