Outside Broadcast multitrack PT9 or Pyramix or Nuendo

[jvancorduroy]

Looking for a super reliable multitrack for a Outside Broadcast truck.I am wanting to know peoples experiences with reliability of these systems.

[unclejoe]

In my experience -

Pyramix - super solid but expensive.

Reaper - super solid, cheap.

Logic - Falls over.

PT - falls over.

Nuendo - havent used this for multitracking so not sure.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by jvancorduroy

Looking for a super reliable multitrack for a Outside Broadcast truck.I am wanting to know peoples experiences with reliability of these systems.

Of the three I would go for Pyramix.

Though SADiE and Sequoia are also worth looking at.

For broadcast, Pyramix does seem to be the top one, though.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[huub]

We use a 128 channel pyramix system.
Very reliable, but expensive.
For backup we use a reaper system with RME madi card.. Also very reliable..
For a lot of our UK customers pyramix is a recognized name, reaper as a main system kind of looks amateurish in a way, but purely technically I would not hesitate using it as a main system..

Shows are going to be mixed in protools 99% of the time, so recording in protools is nice because you can deliver a protools project to the customer.
I've done a 130 channel protools OB recording, and protools was fine.. It's far from ideal for OB work, but workable..

If you want Video sync and LTC sync, pmx and protools require expensive interfaces.
However, if your recording system is in the OB truck, taking a MADI feed or two fro m the console, video sync isn't necessary, you can just lock to the incoming MADI stream..

Reaper can sync to ltc on any audio input..
So can Boomrecorder, but boomrecorder can't be used to playback soundchecks, reaper can..

I know people who use nuendo for this kind of work, and they're happy with it..
I have used Nuendo once, and there were dropouts in the recording.. (This was only for the 4 biggest metalbands on earth....)
I'm sure this wasn't nuendos fault, but our backup was Pyramix and PMX was fine..
So just out of superstition, I'm not going to use nuendo ever again

[unclejoe]

I da agree with the perception of reaper. Maybe this will change over time. More and more people are using it (even if only for backups) and I have yet to see it fail in any way. Extracting TC from any audio track is a massive plus for such a cheap system too.

Pyramix is the way to go if money is no object, but be prepared to pay for extras. things that are standard in other DAWs are paid add ons with pyramix.

Maybe go with one of each? pyramix main and reaper backup?

[HughH]

Hello,

Pyramix is a nice system but it's expensive as noted and here in the US it's not well known except among some classical folks. ProTools is also too expensive for what it does because the only way to get more than 64 tracks of recording is to use an HD3 or HD4. Native will do 64 tracks but it's overpriced for one madi port, and PT9 with third-party interfaces only records up to 32 tracks.

We use Nuendo as our primary and X-48s for backup. Nuendo works great with two madi cards. For our users we need a "name" so Nuendo is a good alternative to PT and after the show we convert to a PT session. The X-48s were purchased because they're a known commodity among show producers.

Hugh

[Ozpeter]

If reliability is the top criterion, then these days I'd say that the hardware side is going to be more likely to cause problems than the software side (and that includes power backup system and so forth).

And of course there's the operator failure factor. When it comes to idiot-proofing features, Reaper does have some nice stuff like being able to have only user-selected keyboard shortcuts working during recording, making it less likely that someone will lean on the keyboard and stop the recording. It also allows for inputs to be reconfigured on the fly if you suddenly realise once things have started that you've got a mic not assigned to a recording channel, for instance.

[matthewd]

I along with a good few others on here find the Sadie LRX to be a very good reliable solution which is of course very small footprint also and seems more robust than a lot of interfaces. I have to say I have never seen a crash in record - very occasionally in playback when certain keys are stuck simulataneously.

Matt

[LX3]

Nuendo working well here, solid, never been a problem (That's done it, problems will now start tomorrow! ).

Have it running on custom-built i7 rackmount PCs with MADI boards etc.

Although it looks like a reasonable cheaper alternative, I haven't been totally convinced by Cubase 5. Despite it supposedly sharing the same code as Nuendo, it hasn't been as reliable (or as easy on the eye) as Nuendo. Cubase 6 may work better, we'll see when we get it installed.

My perfect live-recording software hasn't been released yet. I find all the native DAWs over-complex for the task. But you get used to dealing with it.

Nothing has been as solid as "hardware" recorders such as the X-48, but when you need high track counts and MADI there's not a lot of option.

[huub]

SADIE now has a location recording version right? Simple and superstable, or so I've heard..

How do you guys using nuendo get timecode into the program, MTC?

[huub]

Ah, here it is: SADiE Products: MTR Software
Looks like it comes bundled with the hardware only?

[Roland]

Just realised, I'm high end! Lol, , got both Pyramix and Pro Tools here! As pointed out above, if you are going to be handing off for a mix, Pro Tools has a lot of benefits, though you can record to Pyramix as Bwf's so not too much of a chore to import to PT. Both systems have proved to be reliable for me, that's not to say that I've never had either fall over, it's very rare, but it can happen. Any system can fail for any number of reasons, all the more reason to follow the mantra of making sure you have a back-up.

Depending on the material you are recording, Pyramix is much better for editing, Pro Tools is a pain in this respect (except for bar/beat style editing to grid). From a mixing point of view, you can mix with Pyramix, but outside of classical style mixing, I certainly wouldn't want to mix rock projects with it, in this respect Pro Tools wins hands down.

As has been mentioned above, there are other programs that can do the work well, Sequioa, Reaper, Sadie, Nuendo. They all have their pro's and con's. With the exception of Sadie, I would think that some customers would raise eybrows if you were to tell them that was the main recording system though.

Regards


Roland

[charlienyc]

i agree with Roland about Pyramix and (to some extent) PT. Reaper makes for an excellent backup and actually fills the non-classical-mixing gap (where Pyramix lacks) quite nicely. for the broadcast remote, Pyramix + Pyramix or Pyramix + Reaper would be my choice, with Nuendo or one of the others as an alternative.

one thing about huub's post above is that if using one of the RME MADI cards, you can add a timecode module, giving you options to run a Native system for a relatively low price.

cheers,
-c

[LX3]

Originally Posted by charlienyc

one thing about huub's post above is that if using one of the RME MADI cards, you can add a timecode module, giving you options to run a Native system for a relatively low price.

Yep. That's what I do. RME cards with timecode option, feed code straight into the add-on board, code shows up in the RME control panel. Tap "T" in Nuendo and you're chasing code (as long as you observe the usual synchronous clocking rules).

There's still an assortment of issues to be aware of, as with all DAWs, but it's pretty solid as DAWs go.

[huub]

Is there anyone that has experience with the SADIE simple multitrack version?
SADiE Products: MTR Software

[0VU]

Originally Posted by huub

Is there anyone that has experience with the SADIE simple multitrack version?
SADiE Products: MTR Software

Yes.

Running on LRX2.

It's never let me down.

[huub]

This works with SADIE hardware only right?
Does the hardware have LTC and video ref built in?
Is a dual madi system possible?

thanks

[0VU]

Originally Posted by huub

This works with SADIE hardware only right?
Does the hardware have LTC and video ref built in?
Is a dual madi system possible?

thanks

Yes - usually with an LRX2 portable or PCM-H64 / PCM-H128 rackmount system.

Yes, both.

No - and yes. Not with an LRX2 or PCM-H64 but the PCM-H128 can handle dual MADI i/o. It comes in two versions - a 4U MADI only version or a 10U version capable of housing up to 24 i/o cards for analogue and/or AES/EBU signals.


One of the most useful things about all three is their ability to take a mixture of i/o cards: MADI - AES/EBU - Analogue Mic/Line - Analogue Line Out, and it's easy enough to swap cards as required to go from all analogue to all digital to all MADI or a mixture.

In the case of the LRX2 (as it's the one I have/know best) being able to do things like take a 56 channel MADI feed from a PA mixer and then add 8 mics/analogue lines (e.g audience mics/feed from a presentation mixer) via a mic/line card, or record from 48 mics (including phantom powering them), and do a stereo monitor mix with real (albeit short) faders instead of a mouse, or do a small scale classical session to stereo with a multitrack backup then do some proper editing on location, in a box that fits into a one-hand-carryable briefcase is a huge plus point over both Pyramix and Sequoia (I have both).

[huub]

Cool, thanks..

[philper]

Originally Posted by jvancorduroy

Looking for a super reliable multitrack for a Outside Broadcast truck.I am wanting to know peoples experiences with reliability of these systems.

X-48, JoeCo, HD24?

phil p

[klaukholm]

We use both Pyramix 7 Masscore dual Madi and Protools HD3 Madi here.
Both do the job very well, but PMX is my choice for the job you describe.
The upgrade paths in PMX are very expensive and IMO the biggest drawback.
It is an expensive system to keep current.
We tend to use protools for click based sessions and PMX for straight recording or material that requres heavy and or advanced editing.

[huub]

A plug for my friend thijs peters at dbmg who now has a dual pyramix masscore system for rent..

[David Spearritt]

PMX Native is reasonably priced.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

PMX Native is reasonably priced.

As long as you stay away from master or post pack.
Upgrade prices on those are in the hard to swallow range.

[Yannick]

Especially the should be no-option options (OMF, AES3 etc) are way too expensive ...

I would investigate a SSL Soundscape V6 + MX4 package ...
15 years - NO CRASH !

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

As long as you stay away from master or post pack.
Upgrade prices on those are in the hard to swallow range.

No more so than Sequoia or Sadie 6 Native. PMX Music pack is very good value, half the price of the other two, and the broadcast pack is a steal and perfect for recording/data acquisition.

[klaukholm]

David, we have the post pack and as far as I can recall, the upgrade from 6 to seven cost well over 1600 usd. That is three times what a sequoia upgrade costs.
Going from V5 to v7 cost me a lot more than buying sequoia outright. Add to that having to pay for DDP for the post pack and it gets uniquely expensive very fast.

[Don S]

Another happy Pyramix user here. I put it on a macbookpro via bootcamp for location work with a Fireface800.

[Ifrit]

And yet another Pyramix voice here. PT HD as backup. Or vice versa, depending on what client asks for.
The only downside of PMX, as mentioned before, is the price. $356 for the ability to chase LTC???

[Don S]

Yeah, I have to agree that it's very expensive. That's the reason I'm still using 5.1. It will cost the same to upgrade to the latest as buying new. I have an older version of sequoia (8.31) and may upgrade that instead.