Live sound experience/what is this board.

[mitera]

Im new to live sound I got asked to assist with recording of a band in a live performace .... Too tell you truth I just had a traumatizing experience coming from a recording background and watching a "live sound engineer" let levels clip, not even attempt to eq the problematic elements, and record to an mbox in stereo with the pads in and the mbox pres up halfway.


In any case, I couldn't help it but start to eq and adjust the levels... The manager just called and they got rid of their engineer and he wants me to run the board and switch out other assistants.

This story might shock some of you..


In any case the console is a model V eight or maybe just 8 I really don't know; Anyone have any ideas? Im going to learn this thing like the back of my hand, I guess im going to have to learn about monitors and wedges too.

Any good resources as well?

[DannyL]

How about a manufacturer's name?

Regards;
Danny

[jlaco]

Crest X8?

[Sound Chaser]

The most humiliating experience is for a studio engineer to make the jump to live sound engineer. Though sound is sound they are very much the antithesis of each other. I could go on and on forever but, really what you what is some help.

So just remember the two disciplines are routed in the same standards of operation. You would still operate your entire gain structure through out the console at unity gain at all stages of the mix. The only difference is the master fader of a live console replaces your SPL control to your monitors.
The hardest thing to do is to setup the response of the P.A. in the room you are playing and that is an ever changing environment in live sound production. Ideally someone from the P.A. company can do this, then you would at least have a starting point.
IF YOU DON'T-- IN THE MOST BASIC TERMS:
The most important thing is to set the crossovers to have 'balanced' energy per band within the spectrum they are meant to handle. To do this start with a flat main EQ. Use your voice with an SM58 as the guide to judge the response of the system--NEVER USE MUSIC. This will throw your frame of reference off. Just try to get (for example a 3way system) the bass, mid and treble as close to a normal balance as possible without the EQ in. Once you have accomplished this fine tune the response with the EQ.
If you can do this much along with the engineering skills you have already learned then you will at least have a decent mix. I guarantee it!

Monitors on the other hand are a whole different ball game. The topic could easily fill a book so just keep it simple. Best just to worry about the basics and try an get the vocals enough level so that the band can hear themselves. Don't try and add in instruments and different mixes unless specifically asked. Go basic, basic, basic. It is important that you do not set the mics at a point where they are about to feed back because once you do that, they will feed back for sure and you will not be able to tell where the feed back is coming from so -- give yourself a little headroom.
Important: Start off with the band playing with just their own stage power along with the monitors. Have the mains off. Try and satisfy the band under these conditions first BUT, don't ask them what they want because they will tell you a little more of this and that and in no time you will lose control.

FINAL piece of advice: The band is your enemy for producing good sound but, you must make them your friend. Always seem in control and only respond to their direct requests. This is the one area where the two disciplines merge-- a sound engineer, whether in a studio or in a concert hall is 50% psychologist...GOOD LUCK!

[producerR]

yeah i just started working radio station called UNregularradio where they record bands live on air and comining from a studio its also taking me a little time to adjust to live recording

[stuntbutt]

Originally Posted by Sound Chaser

The band is your enemy for producing good sound but, you must make them your friend. Always seem in control and only respond to their direct requests. This is the one area where the two disciplines merge-- a sound engineer, whether in a studio or in a concert hall is 50% psychologist

Pure wisdom. Live sound 18 years. Recording 13 years.

[Andy Hamm]

Here are a few tips that I think will help you out:

As Sound Chaser had allready mentioned, ring out and EQ your PA and monitors with your vocal mic. There are no rules as to what the EQ should look like, but avoid boosting frequencies on the graph. If you have 5 vocal mics, set them up and bring them all up to your estimated mix level, don't mute them and do them one at a time! It is really easy to make one mic sound the way you want, but every open mic decreases your level before feedback by about 3db, and what bleeds through these mics will be comming through the speakers anyway. Use the high pass filters on all channels that you don't need anything below 80hz on.

When the band arrives and you need to do monitors from FOH, after you have done your basic check, go thrrough the vocals one at a time and have each musician that has a monitor mix raise their hand if they want to hear that vocal. When they put there hand down, they have enough. Do this for accoustics, keyboards and everything else that needs to be in the monitors. I find this to be the fastest way to get a monitor mix done, and since the musicians are paying attention, they noodle less. Doing monitor mixes individually can take a real long time.

Make sure you take the time to test to see if the strip EQ effects the monitor sends. There is nothing worse then dialing in an accoustic guitar sound on the fly and having the monitors start screaming on stage. If the sends are pre EQ, you are free to noodle all night long, if they aren't just be aware that you are also changing the sound in the monitors.

Be careful with the monitors, sometimes you might hear a nasty frequency (usually low mid) and you will notice that pulling it from the FOH EQ does nothing. This is usually comming from the monitors or an amp on stage. The band may not hear it, because they have the top end facing towards them. The FOH is listening to the monitors that are facing away from them, and sound from the back of the cabinet can get pretty wierd in some rooms.

Walk the room when the band is playing. At least a few times durring the night. Sometimes you will be shocked at how different it sounds when you leave your mix position.

There should be a main compressor, or a limiter on the mains. This might be in the crossover, or you might just have a mains compressor. Always set up your limiter just outside the threshold of your mix. I promise you, within the first dozen or so gigs, someone will drop a mic, hit one with a drumstick, have a wireless that goes crazy, a bad cable, or will walk so far away from thier DI that they yank the cable out. You need protection from this sort of thing.

I can go on forever, but the most important thing is to have fun with it.

[ebulb]

I found the biggest challenges with live sound are feedback and handling certain performers attitudes and expectations.. you will find some singers will want to blame you if the crowd arent getting into it.. The slightest bit of feedback in that scenario and you become the total scapegoat..

Also if you are mixing local bands in a small bar, you will inevitably come across a singer who is shy and paranoid and sings about 3 feet away from the mic and keeps wanting more foldback.. they are usually new to playing live but they presume sound is all in the mix and has little to do with performance technique. When i was doing FOH i got reasonably good at spotting these potential scenarios and would tell them at line check, im not going to be turning you up all night, you need to sing into the mic properly otherwise you will look like a mime artist.

You get that with other stuff also.. one time i had a cello player with a rock band and this drummer who hit really hard, the cello player had no pickup for his cello and expects me to mic him up behind a heavy metal drummer.. Thats fine if its soft acoustic with brushes or hot rods but this wasnt, it was heavy rock on a small stage with a fairly average PA and the cello (who was a guest apparently) was right next to the kit..

The other thing with feedback, even if you have done a good job at ringing out the system and done a good line check.. something will no doubt cause a problem for you at some point, everything bleeds into each other so if a guitarist changes his sound through an FX box or something and suddenly has lots of bright EQ it can potentially cause probs through vocal mics (if its a small stage) two other things i would say is gate your kick mic to avoid bass amp feeding back through it and try to ensure you have a heavy curtain or something on the rear walls to minimise reflection.

[Andy Hamm]

Is it this console (crest X series)?

[GZsound]

As far as isues with the recording gear being set wrong, frequently the sound guy is too busy to play with the recording equipment, especially if there are problems with the live sound.

I find that live sound and recording studio work are separate and have very little in common. In the studio, you get to play back your recording and make changes, in a live situation, it better be right and it better be right now.

Learn the gear and use your ears.