cable reels for single XLR 25' cables

[philper]

Years ago I saw an article somewhere about a live sound company storing all its single-strand XLR>XLR cables on reels, instead of coiling them up individually and putting them in a box. I'm talking about lots of 25' cables, that go from mics to the stage box. Do sound companies still do this? Is it a good idea? Or too much strain on the connectors? As I recall, they simple plugged each cable into the last and wound them up.... It seems like a way faster way to wrap than coiling each cable individually...

phil p

[Xander]

To me that sounds like a big PITA. And I have never seen it.

If I was on stage crew and the monitor engineer yelled at me to get 4 XLR cables, I would be $h!+ing a brick the whole time I was trying to get the cables off the reel. Of course I guess you could take them off before the show. But that seems like a huge waste of time.

I have never had a problem with properly wrapped cables (you do know about over-under, right? no offense if you're more experienced than I assumed). Just color code your lengths, wrap them all the same size, and find a nice trunk with dividers to store them all in. Good to go!

[philper]

Originally Posted by Xander

To me that sounds like a big PITA. And I have never seen it.

If I was on stage crew and the monitor engineer yelled at me to get 4 XLR cables, I would be $h!+ing a brick the whole time I was trying to get the cables off the reel. Of course I guess you could take them off before the show. But that seems like a huge waste of time.

I have never had a problem with properly wrapped cables (you do know about over-under, right? no offense if you're more experienced than I assumed). Just color code your lengths, wrap them all the same size, and find a nice trunk with dividers to store them all in. Good to go!

You make a good point about grabbing several cables at once. Yes, I can over under at light speed awake, asleep or sick abed by now, but I always feel like it takes inordinately long @ wrap to get all the cables into the cable box....

phil p

[GLouie]

Oh yeah, I've seen it. The vocal jazz group at my music school did this. They had the kids doing the PA system, so they had dozens of 25 ft. mic cables and a garden hose roller. I guess it made sense to them and was easier and faster than training all of them to over-under coil them.

I think it only makes sense if every set-up always uses dozens of 25 ft XLR cables. Any extra wear is probably negligible - they did bring me a lot of damaged cables to fix, but it was more due to cheap cables with cheap connectors, plus student abuse.

[OzGizmo]

The cables going onto a hose reel is often used in stage and theatre productions, for a VERY quick pack-up....
The disadvantage is it an absolute pain on the setup.

[dustyreels]

A band I was in used to use a reel made for orange utility power cords. For being a small time band on the run, it worked great. We usually had around a dozen or so cables so it was the easiest solution to keep them organized. For our situation, it was a lot easier than trying to get everyone (like you know, drummers , ect.) on the same page with the over/under technique. It was definatley faster when you consider not having to untangle a bunch ov cable upon set up night after night. I never noticed undue strain aside from normal wear and tare. Good topic...

[0VU]

I've seen a few places/people doing that and I'd go along with some others here and say that for me it just doesn't work operationally. Whilst it's nice and quick to pack down - if all your cables are untangled from each other and not running around loads of chair legs etc. - on setup it's just a complete pain.

I usually find that when rigging, I want either to take a cable to a mic, plug in and then route the cable back to a stage/wallbox, running it around chairs and other obstacles, or to take a bunch of cables up to a roof space or balcony to take care of slings or drops, or to run loads of cables around pre-set stages to mic stands to await mics. Either way, I don't want to be handling a load of loose cables off drums/dragging them through loads of chairs from a cable drum that'll always be in the wrong place, or lugging around a heavy drum full of cables whilst trying not to fall down ladders or trip over music stands/chairs. Where I've had to work with rigs which store cables on drums I end up pulling them off the drums and neatly coiling and taping/tying them before I can take them on stage or up to lighting galleries or ceiling voids. Which is a huge waste of time when one is trying to set up.

I'm also not convinced that wrapping mated XLRs around the tight radius of the average small cable drum is particularly good for either the connectors or stress on the cables where they enter/leave the connectors.

Apart from that, if you record or need to rig more than one job/venue at any one time so need to split your rig to different places, and store all your cables on a few drums, you only end up having to take off some cables and coil them to send them to separate places. And it's harder to count how many cables you're sending or to count them back in.


But that's just me. I do the over-under coiling which, on a congested stage where cables always wrap around any nearby chair/stand/halfwitted stagehand as you try to pull them in, doesn't seem to take that much longer than winding onto a drum, and store them sorted by length (ID'd by colour coded boots on the male XLRs) in a trunk with dividers - as described above by Xander. (Of course, you do need to make sure that everyone using your gear knows how to look after it and coil cables properly!) When my gear was stored in its former home, I had a rack of large hooks on one wall, upon which I hung cables, sorted by length, and could just count in to various trunks what was needed for each job and check what came back as it went back onto the rack. Must do that again when I get time!

[pkautzsch]

On setup, the reel way is a little slower, especially if you only have one drum.
However, I don't see why it should be faster to pull a cable from mic stand to stagebox on its own vs. fixing it to the stand and then walking back to stagebox with that reel in my hand. Yes, you need to fully uncoil it, but what's left on the reel isn't usually more than 6 ft. If you have one reel per person, you can be really fast.
Usually I have more time on setup than on wrap. Over-under in a hurry can be disastrous especially when your assistant isn't too experienced. Sitting down next to stage box and coiling them onto the reel is sooo much faster, even with some chairs, as long as you've been careful on setup to keep cable runs straight. And every idiot can do that once you've shown them how to plug a female XLR into a male XLR.

[RobAnderson]

I have seen this from time to time, both with XLR cables and snakes. It's one of those things that seems like a great idea, but really isn't. In neither case have I found it faster on setup or on breakdown - quite the opposite.

It might be easier with snakes that are large and long (like 150+ foot 48- or 56- pair), but it would probably require two guys to do the job without damaging anything.

I wrap long cables and snakes over-under, but 25-footers I'll wrap the "normal" way (under-under?). I'll wager I can wrap more cables in less time than the guy with the reel.

[bishopthomas]

I tried it once with my cables. Didn't last long before I went back to over/undering. I know a guy who still uses the reel (he does many things poorly) and a few days ago I used some cables at a PAC that had that setup. It was a PITA.

[DannyL]

Not many companies use cable reelers. They are heavy and inefficient.
They also tend to shear the ends off the cables, rendering them useless.

We attach a cable tie to every individual cable. Most "ties" are merely grip chord or velcro strips, attached near the male end of the cable. All cables are wrapped over/under and then tied securely and packed in crates:
One crate for each different length of cable : 1 meter, 3 meters, 10 meters, 20 meters, 30 meters and 50 meters. Each case is clearly labled and each cable is also marked with the name of my company and the length of the cable.

Cable reelers are awful. They require 2 people to wrap longer pieces. AND, you still have to wrap cables to keep them neat on the the stage.
They waste space, time and they break cables and make extra work.

tutt

Regards;
Danny

Originally Posted by philper

Years ago I saw an article somewhere about a live sound company storing all its single-strand XLR>XLR cables on reels, instead of coiling them up individually and putting them in a box. I'm talking about lots of 25' cables, that go from mics to the stage box. Do sound companies still do this? Is it a good idea? Or too much strain on the connectors? As I recall, they simple plugged each cable into the last and wound them up.... It seems like a way faster way to wrap than coiling each cable individually...

phil p

[recordinghopkins]

I use extension cord reels commonly found at the hardware store. I love it. It makes schlepping cables around town a lot easier, and I don't really find it any more difficult to setup or strike. On strike, I wrap the loose end around my ankle to give a little resistance and keep the roll tight as I crank them up one at a time.

[philper]

Thanks dudes. I think the short-cable reel is an idea whose time has NOT come. I DO use snakes whenever I can, but not on reels. The OP was about the cables that go from the mic to the snake stage box. So, staying w/ my milk crates for now. I am pretty fast w/ over/under, and my cables all have ties (which I'd have to remove if I went to a reel).

phil p

[recordinghopkins]

I leave ties on my cables when they go on the reel. They're still helpful for cable management or to tidy the mic stand when video is taken as well.

[EV676]

Two summers ago our production staff had an intern fresh from HS and preparing to go to a major creative arts school, her interest was theatre production.

She's assigned to help me with band audio on the morning show. After we're off the air I asked her to help getting the microphone cables organized and put away.

She proceeds to braid the cables...I'd never seen that before. She tells me that's the way the theatre instructor at her high school taught the students to do with mic cables before putting them away. Her braided cable looked unique but after a ten minute lesson on how to "over-under" she had that technique mastered.

I told her that if she had braided cables on a paying pro gig, she would have probably been laughed off the crew.

[dustyreels]

I think OVU has a really good point. When my old band used the reels, we were carrying small amounts ov cable and playing small venues. We set ourselves up 80% ov the time using our own gear. It made since for us to use the reel. On bigger productions, I can see the reels being less efficient. Not to mention over/under is industry standard. If you want to work in that field you must master that technique.

[Michaelrophone]

Just thought I'd chime in with my two cents...

Personally, I'm quite fond of my little orange Home Depot cable reels. They cost me about 8 or 9 bucks and have made me thousands by shedding loads of time off my set-up and strike. I put the female end on the reel, then wind 'er up. Plug the male end of that cable to the female end of the next, and keep on winding. I can fit between 10-12 cables per reel and it really makes my life easier. When I'm running cables to mics, I just start at the stage box and go. If one cable doesn't make the reach, there's another all ready plugged in and set to go. Wind up the slack at the stand... you get the idea.

It is, however, a personal choice. Everybody's working style is different and this is one thing that has made my life so much easier that I couldn't imagine going back to hand-rolling each cable.

I gotta say though, to say you won't be able to work in this industry if you can't wrap cables is just asinine. This is an industry of self-employment, and since I'm my own boss (and they're my #%$&-ing cables), I will wrap my cables any damn way I choose. I really, truly doubt that anyone will ever walk up and fire me for using reels to wrap my cables.

[dustyreels]

Originally Posted by Michaelrophone

I gotta say though, to say you won't be able to work in this industry if you can't wrap cables is just asinine. This is an industry of self-employment, and since I'm my own boss (and they're my #%$&-ing cables), I will wrap my cables any damn way I choose. I really, truly doubt that anyone will ever walk up and fire me for using reels to wrap my cables.

That is true when you're self employed. But if want to work on 94.7% (made up stat*) ov the crews out there, you must be proficient with the over/under technique.

Personally, I prefer to use the reels.



*64.9% ov all statistics are made up on the spot, 78% ov the time.

[Andy Hamm]

Yeah, I don't like the reels either. You miss out on all the chit chat while wandering around the stage winding up the individual cables.

[Nirvana5253]

Weird - the Vocal Jazz group and Jazz Band I did sound for in College both used the orange garden hose/ utility reel too. Must be a school/theatre thing? Who knows. It's a breeze for when there are 16 people setting up sound and you're the only one who knows whats actually going on. Don't have to worry about people who don't know over under pulling the end through, only to make 40 knots in a 25' cable. Only bad part is when you're holding the reel while someone else untangles a cable (naturally) and as you reel in, the XLR connector whacks you in the finger, or worse yet, the face! Over Under for life. I got an old canvas bag from my dad and just throw all my cables in there flat, all tied up with cable ties and it works perfectly. As always I think this is a YMMV issue? Just my .02



P.S. 150th post. Woot.

[dustyreels]

Originally Posted by Nirvana5253

the XLR connector whacks you in the finger, or worse yet, the face!

yep, lol...

[Remoteness]

Been there, done that and it is indeed a big PITA for sure.

Many of you brought up the exact reasons why I decided to blow off the cable reel concept.

We even had large Hannay reels (in Jethro) for our cooper 56 pair snakes and have decommissioned them too.

That being said, the larger Hannay reels (for our snakes) worked well, but we felt we needed to move away from that workflow. We didn't want to be locked into only one coil option. Those reels were mounted on the truck, so rain or shine (nearby or far away) they had to be coiled at the truck side.

[MichaelPatrick]

I have reel for a long heavy snake, but I wouldn't use string up multiple cables on one.

[chris319]

the "normal" way (under-under?)

I call this the "contractor" wrap, as in a construction contractor wrapping the cord for his electric drill

Cords wrapped the over-under way never, ever get tangled or form knots. No, not ever

BTW, where can I find some multi-colored XLR boots?

[wandering]

Redco has them. They have always given me great service.

Redco Audio - Color coded boots and rings

Steve

[OzGizmo]

Just some more stuff on winding cables...
How do people "tie" off the bundle? A cord, Velcro wrap, electrical tape or some way other?

I would wind 150+ long cables every week doing TV outside broadcasts they are then bundled with elec. tape.... BUT when you do it this way make sure there is a tag for the next person to find, made by folding the last bit of tape back on itself or pinch the tape together or even twist it twice to form the tag.

If your training people to wind cables try and make the loop using 1m of cable then when you need to work out the length of the cable ... just count the loops, easy.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

The sound company I worked for had the best idea going. We had a bunch of 1 foot by 1 foot squares of plywood with a two foot stick with a handle on top for carrying. They all resided in a larger plywood box that was on wheels. The 25 foot cables were coiled normally and then put on sticks so you could take out about 12 to 15 - 25 foot cables and place them on the stage at one time. You picked up your cable from there. When the show was done the cables when back on the sticks and were put into the larger box. It worked well.

[Boschen]

Cable reels are popular with production crews staffed by non-professionals, as you don't have to over/under the cables, and anyone can put a cable onto the reel without mucking it up. That's why you see them in the environments mentioned by posters above. They seem like a good solution to the uninitiated.

However, reels mess with the cable 'memory', and leave you with a cable that wants to tangle itself.

Reels will not permit you to 'throw' a cable across stage for setup.

You cannot remove multiple cables at once from a reel.

Reels will stress a cable that has been wound on too tightly, and stress the connectors as well.

The best solution I've found involves velcro ties on each cable, and lightweight modular carry solutions like the one mentioned by T. Bethe.
I use a hand-carrying rig like that used on construction sites--kinda like a big carabiner.

Using tape to secure cables will leave sticky residue that is a pain to remove, esp. if you were foolish enough to use duct tape. The reside is hard to dissolve, and will coat the cable as you try to remove it. One of my pet peeves: when I see XLRs or other cables at a gig with tape residue all over them, I can be reasonably sure the rest of the audio rig will suffer from equal lack of attention to detail.

Treat your cables right, and they won't fail on you. I build all my cables from scratch anyway, and almost never deal with repairs or failures except from physical damage.

[recordinghopkins]

IMO, the ease of transport outweighs any additional wear that using a reel may cause.
I haven't experienced problems with cable memory or cable failure as a result of using a reel. I've been doing it for years. Just to be clear, I am talking about single 25' cables. Multipair cables are a different story...

I can "over-under" with the best of 'em, but I still prefer the reel. I never have tangled cables as a result, and when they are on an orange reel they are less tempting to steal. When you're working in bars and night clubs on a regular basis, inventory control is as important as cable maintenance.

Btw, "throwing" cables beats up the connectors, and it's no problem to hold the reel in one hand and zip off a few cables at once.

Using a reel is personal preference, and I respectfully reject the idea that it's just for the non-professionals or the uninitiated.

[Remoteness]

I've seen Broadcast folks use friction tape instead of electrical tape and such.
It doesn't leave any sticky residue that's an issue.