Question about used MKH 416

[TheBlueOne]

I'm currently on the lookout for a mkh 416 for a web series (drama)

I need to buy one soon, and I've found a few on ebay that are used and I think a decent price $550.00

But they appears to be atleast 30 years old. Can I expect problems. Is it worth it then?

[tourtelot]

Any mic that old should probably go on vacation to Germany (or at least Connecticut) for a tune up.

Here's the difference between a really old 416 and a newer (probably more expensive) 416.

There are two different means of powering those mics; the old way was known as T-power or A-B power which uses 12vdc over the two signal leads of the mic. There is even a variation on this where Nagra switched the polarity of this scheme in their recorder preamps and so some T-powered mics of that vintage are marked with a little dot of red nail polish on the XLR to notate reversed polarity. Some of these older mics even used Tuchel plugs for connectors so you would need a power supply (the LA soundshops like Coffey and LSC have them still) AND an XLR to Tuchel adapter.

The second and newer method is, of course, phantom power. These mics are called MKH416 P48 and will be newer and more expensive to buy used. I believe that Sennheiser still makes them new but I could be wrong.

All these words to say if you need a 416 and have a tight budget, a T-powered version might do you fine. A couple of extra thingers to hang off your recorder or mixing panel, but a good old 416 will sound fine. If you have more money, and don't want to risk an older mic with a weird powering scheme, get a P48 version.

Of course, it is possible that the old mic will sound fine and a newer, abused mic might sound shitty so get a return policy in writing before you lay down the green.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

D.

[TheBlueOne]

Thanks, very helpful.

I don't mind getting the power adapter, and the mic I was looking at seems to come with tuchel xlr adapter.

But with all these gizmos, is it better to just get a k6 (or some other mic) and avoid all the hassle. Will the difference in sound quality be that noticeable?

I'm planning on recording into an h4n. Is it still worth investing in a decent mic?

[John Willett]

Some slight inaccuracies here.....

The MKH 416 was launched in about 1975 as a phantom powered mic.

The "T" powered version actually came later.

The 416 is still a current mic. and still very popular. The "T" version was produced until very recently.

Early versions used a crystal, later versions are PLL locked.

If the mic. Is clean and works it should not really need sending anywhere to be checked out - it's an RF condenser, not an AF one.

If you get a T-powered version you can get XLR barrels that convert 48V phantom to T-power to avoid getting a special power supply. Though quite a lot of recorders also supply T-power.

A 416 is considerably better than a K6+ME66.

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[CAT5]

Working with an almost 30 years old 416 with T power I can tell you it's still a great mic. The 48 and T versions are not sounding the same exactly, but who cares; are you ever in a situation where you can compare side by side during work?

Again; Superb mic! The only mic I use instead of it when I only have 48 at a mixer is rode's ntg-3. But I much prefer my 416T

[uosdwis]

If you're not dead set on the 416, and I can't imagine a good reason why you should be, check out the Røde NTG-3. It is in no way a lesser mic than the 416 and you can get it brand new (with a 10 year warranty) for not much more than a battered old 416.

A classic is a classic, but there's also this thing called progress.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by uosdwis

If you're not dead set on the 416, and I can't imagine a good reason why you should be, check out the Røde NTG-3. It is in no way a lesser mic than the 416 and you can get it brand new (with a 10 year warranty) for not much more than a battered old 416.

A classic is a classic, but there's also this thing called progress.

How is an NTG-3 “progress" over a 416?

The MKH 60 is progress as it uses the latest symmetrical capsule with much lower distortion figures. The 8060 and 8070 are progress as well as these also use the symmetrical capsule. The Røde uses the same old technology as the 416 made at a cheaper price.


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[uosdwis]

I should have worded that more carefully.

I wasn't saying the NTG-3 is technically superior to the 416, just that in the 30 or so years between the launch of the 416 and the NTG-3, "progress" in various areas have apparently enabled us to acquire an NTG-3 fresh from the factory and with a 10 year warranty at around half the cost of a new 416.

Having said that, no mic is better at being a 416 than a 416. If that's what the OP wants, they are indeed rugged and buying used shouldn't be a problem.

However, if the OP has a budget to adhere to (and it did sort of seem that way) and basically wants a rugged RF shotgun mic with specs that are on par with the 416, the NTG-3 should be a contender. It's a great mic at a good price. And there's no need to make it out to be a cheap copy just because it doesn't carry the Sennheiser label.

[TheBlueOne]

The only problem with the ntg-3 is that you can't really get it used. Your basically buying it for $650-700 and at that price, it's almost $200 more than the possibly superior used mkh 416.

But I guess you get a certain peace of mind with a warranty and brand new mic.

I've heard that using a power adapter and tuchel adapter lessen the quality of mic.

But it sound like most people have confidence in a 30 year old mic.

I say 30 years old because it has a tuchel connector, and I believe they were discontinued after the 70's.

Thanks again everyone.

[uosdwis]

To my ears (obligatory disclaimer) the NTG-3 has a slightly wider pickup pattern, but also less colored off-axis response. They are both great mics and you basically can't go wrong with either one; at this level it's mostly a matter of subjective/application-based preference.

Don't let the adapters discourage you if the 416 is in good shape. If the savings of $100 or so (by your estimates) enable you to buy better shock/wind protection or a lighter boom pole or something like that, that's going to have a much bigger impact on the overall results than the difference in sonic quality between the two.

Best of luck!

[tourtelot]

Good point. Do NOT neglect the wind protection! Indoors, a foam pop-screen will help protect the mic from bumps and bruises, but the MKH416 (and most mics that might be used in the same application) is VERY susceptible to wind. There is really no other way to use it outdoors without, at least, a Rycote Softie (or equivalent.) For anything other than a breeze, I highly recommend a full-on zepellin and high wind cover (dead cat, fuzzy or whatever you might call it )

And John. Very interesting about the correction to my post. Sennheiser introduced that mic as a P48? And then, introduced a new version to make itself available to the motion picture industry (able to use the powering from the Nagra.) Very cool to know that.

John. So that I can do some more snooping, can you point me in the direction of that info? I'd appreciate it.

And though I have never heard the Rode, I wonder if, in 30 years, you saw one on eBay, would you have even the remotest interest in buy it? Just sayin'

Oh, and I forgot about the P48-T adapter barrels. I had a few when I had T-power mics and they seemed to work fine.

Also, beware of having T-power on when you plug in other mics. It is much more hazardous to non-T-powered mics than phantom is. I have blown up a mic or two in my day being careless.

D.

[huub]

We use both age old (from the 80ies) and new 416s , they're all fine and basically sound the same..
But we also use new and age old MKE40's now these do vary wildly in tone....

Might be the case with 416s also, but we only use these for sound fx (crowd etc) so I'm not sure if I would recognise slight tone differences..

[junior]

Originally Posted by CAT5

Working with an almost 30 years old 416 with T power I can tell you it's still a great mic. The 48 and T versions are not sounding the same exactly, but who cares; are you ever in a situation where you can compare side by side during work?

+1 on the T-powered mics. The adapters are cheap and it's easy to make a Tuchel to XLR pigtail if you need one. thumbsup

[philper]

I have both the 416 and the K6 outfit, and my 416 is a old, very used, T power model. I much prefer the 416. You'll need wind protection for any mic you use outdoors.

phil p

[TheBlueOne]

Ok, I think I'm sold.

Age be damned, I'm getting a used 416 and some sort of wind cover.

Thanks for all the help

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by TheBlueOne

I say 30 years old because it has a tuchel connector, and I believe they were discontinued after the 70's.

Tuchel connectors were available a lot longer than that.

Broadcasters like the BBC preferred them to XLRs because they screwed down and held the connector all round instead of at one point. Also, the pins are self-cleaning.

I'm not sure when the Tuchel was stopped, but it was certainly available well into the '80's and possibly the 90's.


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[rocksure]

I am interested in the various comments on this thread regarding Rode v 416. I am generally a fan of Rode mics, but haven't used their shotguns. I have used 416's, though I Currently don't own one. Are the two really in the same ballpark? Preferably I am asking people here that really have used both, and are not just biased Rode mic bashers ( there's a few of 'em on GS).

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by rocksure

I am interested in the various comments on this thread regarding Rode v 416. I am generally a fan of Rode mics, but haven't used their shotguns. I have used 416's, though I Currently don't own one. Are the two really in the same ballpark? Preferably I am asking people here that really have used both, and are not just biased Rode mic bashers ( there's a few of 'em on GS).

The only post I have seen is this one posted by someone who had used both on the same project.

[mosrite]

How can I lavish enough praise on this mic? Solid, dependable, classic.

The thing with the MKH416 is that you know what you are getting and you know it will deliver even in the toughest environments.

A good test for equipment durability is to have a rummage through the film & TV rental house store rooms to see the kit that has survived decades of use and, sometimes, abuse. The MKH416 is always there in numbers.

The MKH60 probably is a better all round mic but, because we know the 416 intimately, it doesn't get as much of a look-in. The transition will slowly occur if and when Sennheiser stop making it I guess. In the meantime you cannot go wrong with a 416 and if there ever was a piece of equipment to buy used then this is it.