Adding to mic locker and mic stands for orchestral concerts

[DaveClissold]

Hi all,

I am looking at getting started with location recording in particular orchestras and choirs. I have recently splashed out on a pair of Earthworks QTC30s and TC30s, still looking for another pair of either or some nice ribbons. Now I know I've got a good foundation for some respectable recordings, any suggestions on the next addition would be appreciated.

My next purchases now are the boring things stands and cables etc.. I have seen a location recording company that use 9m booms and clamps on heavy/lighting stands with special clamps and was wondering what you guys would suggest to buy, I was thinking of getting a 6-8 K&M stands, the regular height 1.6m stand height with .8m boom length or would this not be tall enough, there is a QuickLock heavy duty 2.4m height and 1.something boom for a bit more but I would be limited to only 4 of them on the budget. Does anyone have any alternatives to the excessive 9m boom for use on location where obviously we want to hide easily and not obstruct the audiences view?

Budget is £2000 in total I'm thinking £500 of that for stands.

Dave

[John Willett]

The K&M stands are very nice but pretty heavy.

Several months ago we saw a mice stand from Sontronics - we put it to the MD that it would be nice to have it much taller to be used as a Cathedral Stand and in black instead of silver aluminium.

I understand they have done some samples and hope to launch it soon. It should be cheaper and lighter than the K&M.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[machineintel]

fwiw, I'm just about to purchase one or two of these:

Manfrotto Alu Master 3 Riser 12' AC Stand (Black) 1004BAC B&H

3kg, 3.65m maximum height and quite cheap.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The K&M stands are very nice but pretty heavy.

Several months ago we saw a mice stand from Sontronics - we put it to the MD that it would be nice to have it much taller to be used as a Cathedral Stand and in black instead of silver aluminium.

I understand they have done some samples and hope to launch it soon. It should be cheaper and lighter than the K&M.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

Hmm I got an email from Sontronix last month about black stands and he said they had no plans to make them in black yet. So I went down Ikea on the M62 near Leeds and got some of these for a tenner each. 30 quid gets you 12' stands. elegant tall mic stand... by IKEA

So far it seems really stable. My mics are small though - Soundfield SPS200, Audix SCX-1 and Elation KM201. I would not put big stuff on them!

[Peter Allison]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Hmm I got an email from Sontronix last month about black stands and he said they had no plans to make them in black yet. So I went down Ikea on the M62 near Leeds and got some of these for a tenner each. 30 quid gets you 12' stands. elegant tall mic stand... by IKEA

Hope you did not get stuck in the traffic, its murder lol
( I am in harrogate)

[richgilb]

Actually I did, for about half an hour trying to get past the Leeds junctions back to Hull. Do you know the Yorkshire Saw Player? He lives in Harrogate. I went over there and recorded him once upon a time.

[DaveClissold]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Hmm I got an email from Sontronix last month about black stands and he said they had no plans to make them in black yet. So I went down Ikea on the M62 near Leeds and got some of these for a tenner each. 30 quid gets you 12' stands. elegant tall mic stand... by IKEA

So far it seems really stable. My mics are small though - Soundfield SPS200, Audix SCX-1 and Elation KM201. I would not put big stuff on them!

Whats the Soundfield like?

[richgilb]

without doubt the tool for the job when you don't know what you are doing like me! You can change its polar pattern later, adjust stereo width and even the height of the sound in the software. and it is really really small. I love it.

[DaveClissold]

It does look interesting, watched the SOS video on it but not sure how it will compare to the Earthworks QTCs I've got coming. Was looking at a shotgun and a fig 8 LDC or ribbon to add a M/S configuration for larger orchestras to pick out the winds, without having loads of mics everywhere during concerts.

[richgilb]

No idea how they will compare soundwise, but those diaphragms look really small....will they be quiet enough for distant placing?

I am also trying to get the setup discrete and with few mics visibly present, hence the Ikea stands, Soundfield, and the Audix scx-1. Look at the size of these:

Audix SCX-1

Back to the original question, have you decided which stands yet?

[DaveClissold]

I know the K&M Overhead Stands are solid, have used and they don't wobble when the boom is extended, even on a springy drum rise and they get up just over 3m . Ok they're £60 but I know then I have something reliable so will probably stump up for them.

or do I hunt down someone to try and make them for me, say a welder. House mate apparently knows of one, who made his record rack in our living room.

[richgilb]

Can you provide a link to the model that extends to 3m for £60?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Can you provide a link to the model that extends to 3m for £60?

Yes - that sounds extremely cheap to me.

My K&M was about £250 I think.

[0VU]

I think Dave is referring to the 21021 Overhead Stand

It's about 2m tall plus about 1m of boom and about £60 from Canford or Studio Spares (in the UK). I have, well, quite a lot of these as my main general purpose stands and they're very handy. Not really "tall" in the classical recording sense but much better than the 'normal' boom stand. They're also heavier and have wider bases than 'normal' boom stands so are more stable. It's worth mentioning though, that they can be a pain for close micing things like pianos in a visually neat way because they're just a bit too tall even fully un-extended, and the boom isn't telescopic. It's worth having a few 'normal' boom stands for such things. And you won't be recording many cathedral organs or using many high Decca Trees off them but for general spot mics on live things or anything else requiring a bit more distance than can be reached with a standard boom and where there isn't space or there would be visual objections to larger tripod base stands, they're great. They do feel quite heavy when you flightcase them in 12s though!

For a little more height, I've taken to swapping the booms for either home made carbon fibre booms 2-3m long (only really useful with smaller/lighter mics like KM100s or Schoeps/DPA compacts (probably Sennheiser ones too, John )) or the booms from one of K+M's other stands, which extend to a smidge over 1.5m and are happy enough with things upto about a TML170/MC740 in weight; not a Brauner VM1/RCA44 though! These booms are only available in the UK as part of another stand, which becomes pretty much useless without them, so it's quite an expensive upgrade for another 0.5m but they do work well. And if there's one thing I've never regretted buying it's good quality mic stands. Every K+M stand I've bought in the last 30 years is still in full use (thanks to great build quality and good spares availabilty) and I'd recommend them to anyone (avoiding the low end, budget models).

I also have stands by Manfrotto (great stands but all but impossible to get spares for in the UK!), MCK (huge wheeled studio tripods with 8m telescopic booms and remote mic aiming gear - beautifully made but incredibly heavy and quite expensive (about £1200ea. in 1990), Keith Monks (very useful tall booms, virtually indestructible but, afaik, sadly no longer available), Ambient (big, long booms), and a few specialist odds and ends including a Clark Teksam tall stand (actually a 'portable' wireless mast capable of taking about 10kg head load up to about 15m), some custom made stuff and various dedicated things from mic makers like Neumann, AKG and Schoeps.

Don't waste money on cheap stands, even if they don't fail spectacularly and hurt someone/trash an expensive instrument or mic, you'll only end up putting up with the constant frustration of increasingly failing/faulty stands with no spares availability before buying them all again a few years down the line.

[pkautzsch]

Typical would be either the Manfrotto mentioned earlier, or the K&M 20800 which goes to 3 m by itself.
The standard K&M (210/2) is too low for a main pair, even for larger area spot miking. You can do the 2-mic-per-section thing with 210/2, but you won't get high enough to cover more than 6 players equally.
One might opt for the K&M 260 stand with one or even two of the 20005-300.055 extensions. That would be the least visually disturbing solution, as there are no legs and it's still quite stable because of the heavy baseplate. These extensions fit on any stand, they can safely get you up to 4 m with the 20800.

[DaveClissold]

Apologies for not replying Rich, been ill the last few days.

Originally Posted by 0VU

I think Dave is referring to the 21021 Overhead Stand

Yes that is the stand I was referring to. Do you have a link for or a photo of the MCK stands? Although I won't be able to afford them would be nice to see how they are constructed and what they can achieve, possible future purchase if I ever earn that much.

Thanks guys for chipping in it's given me plenty of things to digest and I am thinking now possibly 1 big tripod for getting up around the 4/5 m for a decca tree or my soon to be built diy Jecklin disk and bugger what the audience think. I'm there for a reason and that's to get the best sound for of the recording which they will inevitably buy. So what if they can't see the left eye of the pretty violinist at the back of the 2nds? Move to another seat if you want that view, I know I would if I wasn't more interested in the cellists!!

[richgilb]

the only one that tempts me from the Ikea solution is this one but K & M don't seem to offer a recommendation for the base. Anyone know this one? MICROPHONE »FISHING POLE«: K&M - König & Meyer GmbH & Co.KG

Available for £70 and claims to allow cabling to run through but what bases work with it and how much are they?

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Anyone know this one? MICROPHONE »FISHING POLE«: K&M - König & Meyer GmbH & Co.KG

Available for £70 and claims to allow cabling to run through but what bases work with it and how much are they?

That's not a microphone stand, but a boompole (as used in movie location sound). And, frankly, there are better boompoles.
As this thing has a diameter of about 1.5 inches, you're not going to find a "microphone stand" baseplate. Maybe a garden parasol base would work - but that doesn't look very neat.
There is a Thomann stand that goes to over 4 mtrs as well: MILLENIUM MS-2300 - Thomann UK Cyberstore
It doesn't look as neat as the K&M, but it's still sort of unobtrusive.