On location album • Tracking drums in a stone tunnel (cave) and ...

[Sheikyearbouti]

Dear Slutz,

Here I go again with another thread. This time it is something spicy.
I was asked to produce, record and mix a rock album this summer. It is a kind of melodic and not very hard rock (with some drive bits). Male and female singer with a lot of backing vocals, guitar (el/ac), bass and violin. Maybe there will be some electronic sounds & synths, sound design, etc. but this will be done later.

What I would like to discuss here is the recording. Location recording...

My customer (the band's manager) is very serious about the project, so it is the band.
By my request from now on they will have all of their rehearsals with a click and so will be it in the next 4 months. The recording will take place once the band is prepared and knows the material very well.
Soon I will have a demo of all songs, so that I can analyze them (as I was asked to do some work on the structure of the songs, the arrangements, bring in some fresh ideas, etc.).

All cool so far, but where is the spicy part of it?

Well, I as a crazy remoter have decided to do things in my own slutty way. And both the manager and the band are quite keen about it. Here is where I need your help and wisdom...

The recording is going to be done in Bulgaria this summer. I want to record the drums and some other stuff in something like a cave; the violin parts, backing vocals, some of the acoustic guitars in a church and the rest of the instruments in a well sounding much drier room. I might have an access to one of the biggest classical concert hall in the country, but this is still not confirmed.
Actually that cave is not exactly a real cave. It is an artificially dug stone tunnel in the rocky mountains of west Bulgaria – see photo. The cool thing about it is that it can be accessed by car and there is even enough place to park inside and still have one lane free (useful in the very, very rare cases where someone else would like to pass trough by car). And since it is a sort of a country side road, a proper permission from the mayor of the region will be obtained.

At the moment we are considering two weeks for the sessions.

I have a plan B in case something goes wrong (ordinary studio with a decent room) - this is something I would like to avoid... of course!


The idea is to get a big and unique sonic picture with a lot of depth by having some relatively dry tracks (most rocky lead vocals, driven guitars, bass), others with a good dosage of nice ambience (drums, other vocals, acoustic guitars), and finally some stuff tracked from a greater distance with a good amount of a long verb (violin, backing vocals, effects).

So my first question is: has anyone ever done anything like that and what do you think about it? How about mixing the different spaces? Maybe there is the great danger of conflicting acoustical information…?

Since it is a rock album and I am after a closer sound and a good amount of flexibility in the post, I intend to address the issue by placing the main mic/s closer than if it would have been a solo act. I intend as well to always have another mic/pair at a much greater distance for the room sound and maybe take lots of gun shots for IRs.

I already recorded drums in this, so called, cave and the sound of the kit in the room IMO was really impressive (for this more later). I as well have done many recordings of violins, acoustic guitars, etc. in very reverberant spaces and yesterday tried to mix some of them with the drums. Although they had nothing to do with one another in terms of music (and it was a complete chaos!) solely sound-wise they mixed very well and I got what I was expecting. Still I am a bit worried…

The equipment (all battery powered)
• Macbook Pro 15' i7 with 2 x brand new batteries
• M-audio Microtrack II with a additional USB battery (in combo witht the Grace trough SPDIF) - this one only if we decide to do some 2ch crazy stuff in the woods or record some atmospheres and nature
• RME FF400

• Mics:
2 x Schoeps CMC6 / MK2
2 x Sennheiser MKH8040
1 x Neumann TLM170
2 x AKG C414 XLS
1 x Shure sm57 no transformer
1 x Shure sm57
1 x Shure Beta52 and maybe a Beta91 too
1 x Neumann U87 (available only for the vocals if needed)
1 x Neumann M147 (available only for the vocals if needed)
+ maybe some more stuff, but I still don't know what... I am hoping for a good vintage valve mic for the vox

• Preamps (all battery powered):
2ch Grace Lunatec with AD
4ch of Audioroot
2ch of RME FF400
2ch of RME FF400 DI
1 x D.A.V. DI & re-amper
1 x 4ch active battery powered headphone splitter box

The monitoring during the tracking will be on headphones but I will have a room nearby where I will have a pair of my trusted Adam A7s to check everything.
As well I think that we will have a big van available where I will be able to put my equipment and monitor - this should give me some degree of isolation during the recording.

[Sheikyearbouti]

The "cave" - the tunnel
You can hear the tunnel in the samples uploaded above. The OH and Room samples are without EQ or comp but with a very gentle peak limiter. The AB+Kick is with some good compression and EQ of the Kick and a bit harder limiting on the stereo buss. I did this recording last year and I had only a pair of C414s (XLS) and a beta52 for the kick and sm57 for the snare. The AKGs went into a Grace Lunatec (pre/ad) and the Shures into M-audio octane preamps/ad . To me the sound of the place is gorgeous but the HH is a bit harsh and metallic. I am guessing that this is from the 414s in combination with the grace and the HH itself – not the tunnel. I remember that in the tunnel the drums didn’t sound that harsh but still this was not the greatest kit and that metallic sound was present. For the following project I will have access to some of the best backline in Bulgaria (including drums) and have a much better mic chose... I think that this will change everything.

The place itself is a bit humid but not much more than some of the churches I have worked in here in London. There is a place in the middle (where the best sound is IMO), which is quite dry and last time when I was there I didn’t see any water dripping. It is protected from rain, but hopefully there won’t be such. I will have constant access to specific weather reports over the phone from one of main weather stations in Bulgaria. Mind you, in July/Auguest the temperatures there are usually around 30-35C and there isn’t much rain if any at all.
At the moment I think that I am more worried about the wind. Last time this wasn’t a big problem but it is a tunnel and this makes me think. I had standard windshields on the 414s and nothing on the Shures. At one point there was some wind noise present in the sm57 only...

So 3 x questions here.
• First do you think that a microphone like the TLM170 would have a problem with average levels of humidity? I have worked in damp churches with the MK2 and had no troubles at all. What about the other mics? I know the MKH will be fine.
• Second question is, do you think that the humidity could be a problem for the drums? Last time I didn't hear much change in the sound of the drums but we were there not more than 3h in total. I am happy to do breaks in every 3h and bring the drums out of the tunnel and put them in the sun if need. But I am not sure how that would effect the kit.
• Third question is regarding the wind - in case that there is no severe wind, do you think that the standard wind shields would be sufficient? I know that it is difficult to say without knowing the place and that it depends on that particular day/weather, but all suggestion here are welcome.

Recording in the cave
The idea is to track the drums together with the bass and maybe the electric guitar - see I want to get a bit of live feeling on tape... all with a click I will DI them and put some software amp simulation for the tracking. Later I will re-amp both trough the d.a.v.

Here is how I intend to mic the kit. Of course until I do it, I can't be sure if that is going to be the best way. Thus the first day will be spent in travel, setup of monitoring room and a drum recording test.

I think that with these mics I will have a good degree of flexibility. For example I could swap the MK2 with the MKH8040 in OH and put the MK2 as rooms.

1, 2 - OH - MK2 on Jecklin disk (kick centre, snare slightly on the side, hat on the side)
3, 4 - Room / In Front of Drums - TLM170(omni )/C414 in MS
5 - Kick - Beta52 or Beta91 (maybe inside close to the beater)
6 - Snare - sm57 trl or MKH8040 - with an isolation baffle to reduce HH spill (ala Bruce Swedien - hi-hat baffle)
7 - Rack Toms - C414 (maybe fig8 pointing at the cymbals)
8 - Floor Tom - MKH8040 or Beta52
9, 10 - DI

HH - no mic
And, yes, I will not put a spot mic like the MKH in the middle of the skin where the drummer usually hits

As you can see I am after the room and a very natural big sound for the drums.
This is why I think omni... I want that boom which I heard there last time

Please feel free to criticize any weak points in my plan. This will help a lot.
As well any kind of suggestions, both technical and creative, are welcome.

Well this is it for now. I will post more info as soon as I have some. Once the project is done I will resurrect the post and upload some samples.

Cheers

[Sheikyearbouti]

err, 62 views of the OH sample and 0 comments...

OK. I have uploaded another sample. It is just a copy/paste mix of the tunnel drums and a violin recorded in a church here in London. They DON'T match as music at all. Sound-wise the result is quite cool IMO. It obviously is a bit too reverberant for Rock music and for the actual recording I will aim at closer perspectives and I will have spots all over the place. Anyway the violin will appear quite rarely in the songs and I wouldn't mind if for contrast it's a bit more reverberant than the rest of the stuff...

How are the different rooms going to mix together? Actually this is one of "The Questions" for me at the moment. And I really hope to be able to use more of the mics which have some room character for the mix rather than relying mostly on spots.

[cyjanopan]

sounds good when soloed, it is too much reverb with violin IMO. Last year I was recording in very humid forest, with streams under us and rain for some time - and all microphones were fine with that. We made covers from artificial fur - worked great, cheap, almost no change in sound but also safe from wind and small rain. Drums and all other instruments were also fine, and it took whole two days. Good luck !

[Depressionman]

Sounds good.To my taste violin is just fine.I would cut the kick reverb somehow instead.

[Sheikyearbouti]

Originally Posted by Depressionman

I would cut the kick reverb somehow instead.

This is just a test. I only copy/pasted one of the tracks onto the other in wave editor without even using a fader. It's not mixed. It was just intended as an experiment to see how those different spaced would mix. The thing is that I guess that others simply wouldn't work.

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

sounds good when soloed, it is too much reverb with violin IMO.

Yes, yes. As I said above I'll track as for Rock and have spots too. These both were solo recordings. Actually the church where the "rock violins" are going to be tracked is smaller and less reverberant. I want to get some nice backing vocals there too.
I am even thinking of trying the tunnel for some of the lead male vocals and maybe the church for, say, the female vox for the chorus/bridge of some songs

[mp54u]

It sounds good to me. This is going to be cool. Can we ask that you take plenty of pics and post a sample of things when you get done?

[Sheikyearbouti]

Yes, we are going to have a camera man to do "the making of". I will post samples/pictures/link to the video once all is done.

[Czybulski]

WOW!
I am totally digging stuff like that. Please keep on reporting. RE your questions I am sorry I have not enough experience for good answers.
My guess is that you will have to experiment and tackle problems as they arise in a creative way - which makes this project so interesting!

What are you planning to use as wind shields?

Cheers, Cz.

[Sheikyearbouti]

Originally Posted by Czybulski

What are you planning to use as wind shields?

I will have some Rycote Softie Windshilds for the Schoeps & MKH mics.
As well a Rycote windcover for the TLM170. The 414s come with their standard windshields as are the sm57s - for now I intend to use those. I am not sure about the beta52. Maybe I have to think about renting some more Rycote stuff for all mics...

[Czybulski]

I think the normal foam shields won't do it if there's a lot of current air. you might want to have some of the more "hairy" models at hand especially for the condensers.
I was also thinking of some curtains to hide the drumset behind it, but that would probably affect the natural sound of the cave too much.

Re moisture: If it's not dripping wet inside there, the drum set should be able to deal with it. If you carry it out into the sun every couple of hours, it'll be more stressful for the material and the drums will probably detune much faster.

[Sheikyearbouti]

Originally Posted by Czybulski

Re moisture: If it's not dripping wet inside there, the drum set should be able to deal with it. If you carry it out into the sun every couple of hours, it'll be more stressful for the material and the drums will probably detune much faster.

Yes, unfortunately I have not idea how is that going to affect the drums. I spoke about it with the drummer which I recorded last year there and he said that he doesn't remember any change in the sound of the kit after being for 3.5h inside. He recalls though that the drum skins were slightly moist.

[Remoteness]

This is too cool of a capture not to bump it...

What do you say fellow Remotesters?