Recording Brass Quartet/Microphone Choice

[JoFi]

I'm planning to record a brass quartet with 2 trumpets, 1 euphonium and 1 tuba. Music will be "traditional german/bavarian style". Room is with solid wooden floor and almost no reverb but a lot of acoustic "measurement", or deepness.

My choice could be an A/B recording with 1 KM84's and 1 KM184 on each side *plus* spot microphones for each instrument to be as flexible as I can. I further have 2 MG 930's and 4 RE-20.

I need your opinions especially in context with trumpets and the choice of their microphones. I could spend some money ...

Thanks for your help.

[hughesmr]

930s in ORTF or NOS. Ditch the spot idea. Take time to place the players and the mics right and let one pair do the job.
thumbsup

[leadplayer]

SF-12 or the AEA 88 stereo ribbons---
No need for spots -- they'll play the balance after
hearing some ref playbacks--adjust the chairs etc.
OR- try omnis, not too far away...

[sonare]

Originally Posted by JoFi

I could spend some money ...

Then spend some money on time in a good room such as a small-medium church. Brass needs "air"-- no man-made reverb can do that ESPECIALLY with tuba and euphonium that send sound upwards.

Rich

[SynthLine09]

Originally Posted by sonare

Then spend some money on time in a good room such as a small-medium church. Brass needs "air"-- no man-made reverb can do that ESPECIALLY with tuba and euphonium that send sound upwards.

Rich

I can not agree with this statement enough

[amanitas]

Agree with the aforementioned posts. Also if you can find a TLM 170 or even better 2 TLM 170s, I think you will be very very happy.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by amanitas

if you can find a TLM 170 or even better 2 TLM 170s, I think you will be very very happy.

One of anything won't do much good-- but if you can get a pair of 170s the multiple patterns will offer flexibility. A pair of TLM193s will give pretty much the same sound-- and I just happen to have a pair for sale!

Rich

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by JoFi

I'm planning to record a brass quartet with 2 trumpets, 1 euphonium and 1 tuba. Music will be "traditional german/bavarian style". Room is with solid wooden floor and almost no reverb but a lot of acoustic "measurement", or deepness.

My choice could be an A/B recording with 1 KM84's and 1 KM184 on each side *plus* spot microphones for each instrument to be as flexible as I can. I further have 2 MG 930's and 4 RE-20.

I need your opinions especially in context with trumpets and the choice of their microphones. I could spend some money ...

Thanks for your help.

Welcome to gearslutz where your inquiry will be made needlessly complicated, and answers given that don't have relevance to the situation you pose, and you will be told to use other gear than you have available. Oh yes-whatever room you're in, you should be using another!

Don't be put off by that-it's normal.

Ignore all the nay-sayers and uninformed opinions about your room. How would any of us presume to know? And the equally dubious assumptions that any church you might find will sound better than any room you might find. People seemed to have thought of brass but not of repertoire, and where such repertoire might be heard. Then ignore the suggestions for gear you do not have.

Instead follow the one and only answer that specifically addressed your scenario.

Make a satisfying and enjoyable recording by following the advice of hugesmr. That is the answer to your inquiry! And it's a good answer.

Enjoy!

[sonare]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Oh yes-whatever room you're in, you should be using another!
....And the equally dubious assumptions that any church you might find will sound better than any room you might find. People seemed to have thought of brass but not of repertoire, and where such repertoire might be heard.

As a matter of fact-- I did think of the repertoire, which was why I suggested a room OTHER than

"almost no reverb but a lot of acoustic "measurement", or deepness."

I have no idea what that means, but as a brass player in a major orchestra for years I happen to know that the room he describes will NOT work out well for the ensemble he describes. For starters-- the players will not play normally in an environment with very little resonance or reverb, and the second reason is that it will sound like s*%^. Lastly, they won't like the experience-- do you think that might come through? And I agree with Mike Hughes advice.

Rich

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by sonare

As a matter of fact-- I did think of the repertoire, which was why I suggested a room OTHER than I have no idea what that means, but as a brass player in a major orchestra for years I happen to know that the room he describes will NOT work out well for the ensemble he describes. For starters-- the players will not play normally in an environment with very little resonance or reverb, and the second reason is that it will sound like s*%^. Lastly, they won't like the experience-- do you think that might come through? And I agree with Mike Hughes advice.

Rich

You clearly state "I have no idea what that means" in reference, apparently, to the OP's room. Then you draw conclusions about the room which exists entirely in your rather negative imagination, followed by imagining players not enjoying their experience. Whew! That kind of attitude produces recordings that sound like the players are not enjoying themselves. A bavarian brass band not enjoying themselves? Very unlikely!

The question from the OP is: how to record bavarian brass music in the room he mentions.

I have no doubt the musicians will enjoy themselves in a wide variety of spaces, including those with lots of wood.

We do agree on the advice from hughesmr.

We'll toast that and encourage the OP to follow that advice and have a happy recording experience!

[sonare]

Originally Posted by JEGG

To hazard a guess about the room which you nothing about is to hazard a completely uninformed guess.

I am not guessing-- the OP said:

almost no reverb

He then said:

a lot of acoustic "measurement", or deepness

Can you explain that phrase?

I would agree with your statement above except that the OP told us about the room so my "guess" is not completely uninformed. And several decades of playing and recording experience leads me to the advice I offered.

May I ask what instrument you play?

Rich

[sonare]

Pair of 930s. Call it a day.

[Adebar]

If the room acoustics is good - and the players too - I would try AB with omnis first. The Josephson C617Set sounds great on brass.

[pkautzsch]

Traditional bavarian brass music (Blasmusik) traditionally is performed outdoors. The most typical setting is a beer garden. Yeah, clichés aren't always wrong. The only historical/traditional occasions for a traditional brass ensemble to play indoors would be a "better" sunday service (church repertoire would rather be slowish "chorale" type well-suited for the stone walls and long reverb) and pub entertainment (polkas, waltzes, Landler, etc. and rather dry acoustics). What they wouldn't usually play is classical/symphonic music.
The type of room and reverb needed will strongly depend on the actual repertoire. So that dryish room may just work fine.
I do like to spot mic stuff to have a little more control as in a remote recording you can't always trust your monitoring. Omnis may or may not be a good idea (good for bass response, bad for roominess). I'm not sure if an AB setup, especially with a large spacing, will be a good main pair. AB tends to make small rooms sound even smaller. I would probably start with an ORTF-ish setup. 184s are what I'd use. "Classical" 3ft distance spots would be SDCs as well, or maybe 170s or 414s. If you go really close probably dynamics can work well, thinking Sennheiser 421, 441 or carefully placed Beyer ribbons.