Near Fields on a live setup?

[BruceTheProduce]

I was reading the january MIX magazine and as I went through the live section, all the live engineers had near fields on their desks. ( this being for a live performance) pardon my ignorance, but why do they need them. Is it because they may be recording the performance? or so they can understand whats going on better? or what is it?


Bruce

[Tibbon]

I could imagine it would be for checking loops and sound effects before the FOH system is ready to go.

[waveterm]

It´s mostly used to PFL channels to check for feedback, buzz and hum. Occasionally we use them to mix on if we can´t hear the PA !

Lol

WT

[dbbubba]

Yeah, believe it or not.... Big Mick who is/was(?) Metallica's F.O.H. mixer had a pair of nearfields running back when I mixed/recorded them mutlitrack back in 1989. I asked him about it and he said that he solo'd stuff up on them during the show. I didn't see how he could have heard anything very well because the system was loud as F*CK!!!!

A lot of live guys do stuff BECAUSE THEY CAN.

However, I use a pair of Genelec 1029s at a particular club where I mix F.O.H. occasionally.
It is a big C&W barn and you mix from the DJ's "fort" (that's what I call the spot where DJs and F.O.H. guys mix from because it's the same mentality as little kids building a fort.)
The level that the club owner prefers the system to be at is just low enough that it puts the "action" too far away for me to hear subtle stuff like FX. I always burn a CD of the show and I have found stupid stuff like 500 msec. delays or the reverb panned to one side. I run FX so low that I can't hear them in the "fort." I use the house system and they have crap like a MidiVerb and a cheap Lexicon unit that have presets that I'm not familiar with. I surely don't dial up a 500 msec. delay on a C&W mix!

I bring the Genelecs and a stereo DDL and set it to 46 msec. which time aligns the nearfields with the system's mains. I then mix it where it sounds good to me. Because most of the band uses in ear monitoring, they are pretty quiet as far as offstage volume, so it works really well! I also burn a CD of every performance and they are pretty decent sounding.

I have also mixed "F.O.H." from the side of the stage with in ear monitors and it works out fine. I get it dialed in by walking out front during sound check and when the balances are good I put in the in ears and mix with them. Again, it sounds good, the client is pleased and the check is cut!

Danny Brown

[tINY]

Damn - and I've been using an old pair of Koss sealed phones for this?

I understand about not being able to hear the PA, though. happens all the time.



-tINY

[BruceTheProduce]

wow!!! never thought of this.
dbbubba, you get a DDL to time align the NFs. Now do you do it by ear? do you calculate the delayed time by distance and temperature (331.4 m/s+(0.6 *temperature)) or both? Does anyone do it either way?

Bruce

[Jim vanBergen]

anything over 6ms is pretty evident to my ear, so you CAN tune nearfields to be in time just by ear. I often use the rule of 1129 ft/sec and measure approximate distance to FOH when using nearfields as a confidence/cue monitor. I have also used laser distometers to be increibly exact, and/or SIM or SMAART to do it electronically (send the pulse, measure the response time, set that to match the delay). I've done it each way. Many times I am resigned to mixing acts from less than desireable position (the NYC Waldorf Astoria ballroom is famous for this-mixing from the second tier, out of the floor's coverage; or the Hammerstein Ballroom when you are under the mezzanine and again, just out of the PA's coverage area) so nearfields are really good to have sometimes.

Hope this helps...

JvB

[dbbubba]

I just rough in the delay time in and then increment it until it sounds good.
There is a point wher just moving yourself from a chair to bending over the console makes a difference, so "close" is close enough.

I turn them up loud enough that it's over the sound of p.a.
This is not that hard in this particular room because I really have to run it low there.

Danny Brown

[Remoteness]

I've been using nearfield monitors at FOH for many years now. I use them when I mix FOH or when I set up my portable recording rig at FOH.

I also bring along a stereo K/T DDL so I can time-align the nearfields at the FOH position. The K/T can be set in feet/meters so you just dial in the numbers and fine adjust until it's perfect. I usually have someone hit the snare while I'm tuning it in.

I use my nearfields like anyone would use their headphones. You see, I don't like wearing headphones even if it's just to check or solo a few channels so, I install a pair of speakers instead.

IMO, it's the only way to fly a live mix or recording at FOH. You don't miss anything either...