jnorman
Thread Starter
#1
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Question iLok - seriously?

do i have to buy a $50 usb thingie to use iLok? i DLed a ddemo copy of quantum leap spaces to try out. loaded it onto my studio machine - cant authorize because my studio machine has no internet. how the hell would i ever get this on my studio machine?

anyway, just to try it out i loaded it onto my laptop and tried to authorize - said i had no iLok, so iw net through all the ilok registration, DLed both thre driver and the whatever else it made me do. went back and tried to authorize QL spaces - said i had no ilok. i guess they want me to buy the ilok key (usb thingie) before i can use ilok to authorize anything.

i finally gave up after wasting probably 2 hours. i really resent that, you know? is this where all software is going? am i making a mountain out of a molehill or have others experienced this kind of difficulty? is there no way to register anything on my studio machine with no net access? thanks.
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#2
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
do i have to buy a $50 usb thingie to use iLok? i DLed a ddemo copy of quantum leap spaces to try out. loaded it onto my studio machine - cant authorize because my studio machine has no internet. how the hell would i ever get this on my studio machine?

anyway, just to try it out i loaded it onto my laptop and tried to authorize - said i had no iLok, so iw net through all the ilok registration, DLed both thre driver and the whatever else it made me do. went back and tried to authorize QL spaces - said i had no ilok. i guess they want me to buy the ilok key (usb thingie) before i can use ilok to authorize anything.

i finally gave up after wasting probably 2 hours. i really resent that, you know? is this where all software is going? am i making a mountain out of a molehill or have others experienced this kind of difficulty? is there no way to register anything on my studio machine with no net access? thanks.

Do you have to buy in iLok to use the iLok? YES

This is nothing new.
jnorman
Thread Starter
#3
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
hi jay - i guess i just dont see a reason for software companies to set things up where i have to go through, and invest in, the iLok process just to try out a demo version of their software. thanks for your response - i assume you are finding value in the iLok system.
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#4
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #4
Lives for gear
 
JonesH's Avatar
iLok - seriously?

That can be really annoying, sure. Just as arriving to the gig and not finding your iLok. Bound to happen some time.
#5
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #5
Lives for gear
 
w_stylz's Avatar
ILOK..

Everything used to be authorized on your hard disk meaning that if your computer crashed or you wanted to do work on another machine, you couldn't. Now, with a simple USB key, you can install most software on any machine you like and use it all over the world. You also don't have to keep track of the authorizations. Yes there is a 1 time $50 entry fee to pay but it is a small price to pay to enter the amazingly powerful world of computer music making. Otherwise. you could always buy a 4 track tape machine or hire an orchestra.

BTW, you can download the authorization onto your ILOK on any computer with internet and then plug the key into your music computer. It is easier than you think!
#6
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #6
I am sorry to sound ironic but all I can say is "Good Morning!".
iLok authorization system is around a decade here.
It became (and here I can say unfortunately) the worldwide standard for plug-ins authorization.
Most of the vendors use this system and it proved to be rock solid.
However there are many disadvantages related to the monopolist's (PACE company) nature.
But at your level you have nothing to complain about. What you say in your thread is similar like someone would complain: "I just want to someone send me an email and I have the computer and display. Why should I have an internet for that simple procedure?! And why I should open an email account?"

Seriously this is how it works, don't fight it - learn how to use it.
Good luck!
#7
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
do i have to buy a $50 usb thingie to use iLok?
The "usb thingie" is the iLok...
#8
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #8
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 

The WHOLE process seems perfectly, what's the word... insane? No, scratch that, the very idea seems insane. You need an iLok, you need internet connectivity, you need to beg on your knees to use things you have bought?

Thanks, but no thanks.
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#9
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
The WHOLE process seems perfectly, what's the word... insane? No, scratch that, the very idea seems insane. You need an iLok, you need internet connectivity, you need to beg on your knees to use things you have bought?

Thanks, but no thanks.
And this is why I used a word "unfortunately" in my previous post.
Since no one acts against the monopolist - PACE/iLok, we just will keep saying "thanks, thanks, thanks....and please don't suspend our account on your own mood. We just spent several thousands dollars on it. See? So please...Please!"
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#10
29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
  #10
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

well, i was "ok" with the ilok thing... still a pita but acceptable if u think that there is a lot of kids craking plugins w/o thinking repercussions or that someone is gonna come after them.

but the latest ilok gimmick of not updating or keeping up with piracy and therefore so many small developers had to hold off on their new cool products because pace didnt get their shiat together. that sucked.

its like they have only one dude working on the code and only updating it once he realizes that all ilok/pace has been broken.
i dunno, the last 3 months imo seemed like it gave away how un pro pace thing is. and how small of a company it really is.
no small usb dongle for how long?
no update to a better securty how long after all ilok plugs where craked?

if there any developers that use ilok id like to read their side of things.
#11
30th January 2011
Old 30th January 2011
  #11
Lives for gear
 
JonesH's Avatar
iLok - seriously?

I'd wish for it to be sized as a Bluetooth miniature dongle. You know, the ones that are just a 5mm bump from your USB connector. That way I could leave it plugged in. And be 100% sure that it's gone the minute I pull it out, instead of 50/50 like now.
#12
30th January 2011
Old 30th January 2011
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Don S's Avatar
 

Cracks are a big problem. I remember seeing written on a Manny's salesman's nametag, "Don't ask me about your cracked plugins!". That was 7 years ago!
jnorman
Thread Starter
#13
30th January 2012
Old 30th January 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
so, where can you find the plugin? is it a freebie, or will i need iLok?
#14
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
rumleymusic's Avatar
Quote:
so, where can you find the plugin? is it a freebie, or will i need iLok?
The first use is free, and they jack it up from there.
#15
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #15
Gear addict
 
Bibster's Avatar
 

Some thoughts...

I dug into some iLok protected stuff once: It's pretty tricky. packed binaries and stuff. Really not for 'kids' to crack the system.
But, there's a lot of developers/companies that simply buy an iLok licence, and implement the demo provided with iLok into their code... They simply buy off their protection. Not a gooad idea IMHO.

Then there's the problem that you actually need an iLok, even for a demo. Shoot me, but I find that ridiculous.

Then there is software that is protected with some supposedly really neat serial number and challenge-response and stuff, but that is really badly implemented. Just 2 weeks ago, for kicks, I dug into a really cool piece of osX software, and within 10 minutes, I flipped one single bit, and all of a sudden, instead of having no feature licensed, all of them were licensed...

And in the end, there's real software, that is not proteced. My day job revolves around one of them, a 47.000$ per cpu database.
Once you start thrusting your business revenue based on software, you simply can not afford to not have support. And you can't buy support without buying a license, so...
IMO, that's the way it should work. Adobe is actually quite happy everyone has some cracked version of photoshop: It makes it the de-facto standard, and all the shops are gonna buy licences however, so.... Let the kids and wannabe designers use a cracked version, once they start making money with it, they or the agency will buy a real license.

Just my thoughts,

P.
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#16
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #16
Gear nut
 
Uncle Russ's Avatar
 

Jim, I remember when I had to by an iLok to use an important plug-in. My reaction was the same as yours. Four years later you might think I would mellow and see the positive aspects of the damned thing -- but NO.

I resent living in a world where I have to submit to corporate bullies or get beaten to a pulp. A world where many younger people might think I'm nuts to feel as I do. Just because rape is inevitable does not mean I enjoy it.
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#17
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
For me, iLok is one of the biggest nuisances and failures around. First - it completely failed as something that "will protect softwares from being pirated". There is literally NOTHING that uses iLok "protection" that is not "freely" available online within few seconds. If I am the company that uses iLok (and pays for it), I would sue iLok for breaking the deal and point ...

So, as a "protection" it is good exactly for nothing

It however brings an additional hassle and nuisance for all the honest paying owners of the software.
First - you have to extra PAY for it (that is unbelievable - YOU have to pay for something that should be companies' business, not yours ... you should get it free and with thanks ...

Second - all that extra time and nuisance: creating iLok account, playing with all those authorisations, when you think all it is finally over you often find that you have to update all those iLok softwares, that your "licenses" that you transfered are not there ... etc. I spent lot of frustrating time in the past with iLok

Third - even if you managed all that, very often, out of nothing, you get some reports like - "iLok not found" etc. (and it is there unmoved in your computer). So you bought a software, you bought that iLok nonsense, you spent time with all those hassles - and in the end it does not work ! (when restarting the computer, it usually starts working).

Few times I ended by installing the cracked versions of the plugins I bought (!!) to prevent this kind of nuisance ... and those versions worked perfectly ...

It is very strange that there exists such a "parasite" company like iLok, that gets money literally for nothing

And it is even double strange that the honest paying users are those who are extra bothered by such things and are "punished" for buying the products. Comparing to those who take them "free" - they have no problems whatsoever.

Why don t these companies finally realise that nothing can be really "protected". No protection works and will ever work. Those who want to buy the software, will buy it anyway (why to bother them with such an extra nonsense - be it iLok or all those authorisation "rituals" like Samplitude etc. - when within 1 min I can easily download the latest fully working cracked Samplitude version etc.). Those who don t want to buy, will not buy anyway and get it "free". So what is the point ?

If nowadays I see there is some plugin or software that requires iLok even for demoing (!!!), I immediately ignore it, even if it is a holy grail of heavenly sound (although I already have the iLok)
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#18
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
hi jay - i guess i just dont see a reason for software companies to set things up where i have to go through, and invest in, the iLok process just to try out a demo version of their software. thanks for your response - i assume you are finding value in the iLok system.
I completely agree. I have Syncrosoft dongle that I need for Nuendo and have no intention of buying another usb dongle. Especially not just for the demo purposes. That's why I REALLY respect FLUX - their demo policy is among the most sane, smart, user friendly, etc. in the world. Maybe only Reaper is more user friendly - allowing to use the fully functional version and relying on your ethics to buy for a very friendly price if you decide to use the software more.

You can use half functioning versions of FLUX plug-ins without any protection for unlimited time to really evaluate if this is what you want. And I must say that the Ircam Verb is slowly overriding my aversion towards getting another dongle. Too bad Syncrosoft is not an option.

So yes - insisting on ilok protection for demo purposes is rather counter productive, annoying to non-ilok users and therefore limiting the amount of potential buyers. So, forget "quantum leap spaces" - try Ircam Verb and/or even the whole Spat thing...
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#19
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #19
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
For me, iLok is one of the biggest nuisances and failures around. First - it completely failed as something that "will protect softwares from being pirated". There is literally NOTHING that uses iLok "protection" that is not "freely" available online within few seconds. If I am the company that uses iLok (and pays for it), I would sue iLok for breaking the deal and point ...

So, as a "protection" it is good exactly for nothing

It however brings an additional hassle and nuisance for all the honest paying owners of the software.
First - you have to extra PAY for it (that is unbelievable - YOU have to pay for something that should be companies' business, not yours ... you should get it free and with thanks ...

Second - all that extra time and nuisance: creating iLok account, playing with all those authorisations, when you think all it is finally over you often find that you have to update all those iLok softwares, that your "licenses" that you transfered are not there ... etc. I spent lot of frustrating time in the past with iLok

Third - even if you managed all that, very often, out of nothing, you get some reports like - "iLok not found" etc. (and it is there unmoved in your computer). So you bought a software, you bought that iLok nonsense, you spent time with all those hassles - and in the end it does not work ! (when restarting the computer, it usually starts working).

Few times I ended by installing the cracked versions of the plugins I bought (!!) to prevent this kind nuisance
to prevent this kind of nuisance ... and those versions worked perfectly ...

It is very strange that there exists such a "parasite" company like iLok, that gets money literally for nothing

And it is even double strange that the honest paying users are those who are extra bothered by such things and are "punished" for buying the products. Comparing to those who take them "free" - they have no problems whatsoever.

Why don t these companies finally realise that nothing can be really "protected". No protection works and will ever work. Those who want to buy the software, will buy it anyway (why to bother them with such an extra nonsense - be it iLok or all those authorisation "rituals" like Samplitude etc. - when within 1 min I can easily download the latest fully working cracked Samplitude version etc.). Those who don t want to buy, will not buy anyway and get it "free". So what is the point ?

If nowadays I see there is some plugin or software that requires iLok even for demoing (!!!), I immediately ignore it, even if it is a holy grail of heavenly sound.
That's the truest post I've ever read about software piracy. Eveything is correct and it reflects exactly my own experience. It's not just Ilok. I had very similar problems with the "Codemeter" thingamabob SSL uses to protect its plugins. The licences disappeared without rime or reason one day and there was no way at all to recover them without direct intervention from SSL support (crazy !). And they told me that they would do it three times max and I should be more careful about the licences. Wow ! I was stunned. I'm now considering using the cracked versions and keep the real licences "not activated" in order to preserve them ! Total absurdity !
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#20
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
I am now using the latest version of Samplitude - ProX. When I keep it idle for a while and want to continue, there is always an error message: "CM Stick (dongle) not found". Nice bug :(( If I use the cracked version of the same (easily available), I would not have such problems ... Neither Magix, nor dongle manufacturer have any idea what is going on ...
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#21
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
mpdonahue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
I am now using the latest version of Samplitude - ProX. When I keep it idle for a while and want to continue, there is always an error message: "CM Stick (dongle) not found". Nice bug :(( If I use the cracked version of the same (easily available), I would not have such problems ... Neither Magix, nor dongle manufacturer have any idea what is going on ...
This may be a stupid question, but have you gone into the BIOS and deep into the power setup menus on Windows and suspended all the USB power saving modes? If you are running W7 or Vista there are about 100 different power saving modes to disable.
All the best,
-mark
#22
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
If with the same computer, dongle and setup it does not happen at all in V10 or 11 but only in ProX - the elementar logic seems to be simple ....
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#23
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
mpdonahue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
If with the same computer, dongle and setup it does not happen at all in V10 or 11 but only in ProX - the elementar logic seems to be simple ....
Not actually. It is based on the number of dongle calls and how often the application is making the calls. In the old versions there may have been some book keeping going on in the background that required calls that the new application is not doing. If there is a long period without a dongle call, the OS will put the USB device into a low power state until a wakeup is initiated. This is the same thing that happens to USB disk drives when left idle. You hit the space bar and the application locks up or crashes waiting for data while the drive spins up.
Some times the "elementar" logic is not that simple.
As always YMMV.
All the best,
-mark
#24
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #24
Gear addict
You guys touched on other software earlier, with the Adobe dongle. Game developers really had an arms race going on until some of the big houses said "Enough!" and started releasing with no protection but serial numbers. Some of the most draconic protection schemes were invented with names like Starguard and Starforce, which install something similar to a root kit on your system. Incredibly intrusive and so integrated into the OS that it often forced a re-install to get rid of it. Licensing these schemes was pretty expensive for the gaming houses. This maybe delayed the hackers by up to a month after the game launched, instead of the usual 2-3 days - but only the 1st time. Lots of consumer push back, and rather than face the ill will that attached to schemes like Starguard & Starforce, almost all companies dropped them.

If there is enough outcry, companies will respond.
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#25
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue View Post
Not actually. It is based on the number of dongle calls and how often the application is making the calls. In the old versions there may have been some book keeping going on in the background that required calls that the new application is not doing. If there is a long period without a dongle call, the OS will put the USB device into a low power state until a wakeup is initiated. This is the same thing that happens to USB disk drives when left idle. You hit the space bar and the application locks up or crashes waiting for data while the drive spins up.
Some times the "elementar" logic is not that simple.
As always YMMV.
All the best,
-mark
Hmm, but 1) it IS reported as a bug by many Samplitude users 2) why, on earth, should a user make a trouble and go even into some BIOS settings, just to let some useless thing work ... (dongle)
#26
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Just came across this:

Quote:
More Information On Waves' New Protection System

TUESDAY, JANUARY 31, 2012 AT 5:06PM | EMAIL ARTICLE
More information is emerging about the new protection system coming to Waves.

One of Version 9’s most highly anticipated features is 64-bit operating system support. Now Waves users can access all available RAM memory in the DAW hosts of their choice. In addition, V9 offers faster scanning, faster loading and faster processing times.

V9 also marks the introduction of Waves’ new easy-to-use authorization system, Waves License Center, which eliminates use of the iLok. Waves License Center offers users authorization activation straight to their computer or any USB flash drive; easy license management; license mobility via USB flash drive or users’ License Cloud; and one-click license recovery in the case of lost or damaged devices.

So in some ways this is a kind of pimped iLok allowing users to keep their protection on any USB flash drive. That seems cool, meaning you can take your session complete with plugins and licences on one flash drive.
#27
31st January 2012
Old 31st January 2012
  #27
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 

it seems that it would allow a non-internet connected computer to run the software.... that is sort of important for some of us....
#28
1st February 2012
Old 1st February 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
I am now using the latest version of Samplitude - ProX. When I keep it idle for a while and want to continue, there is always an error message: "CM Stick (dongle) not found". Nice bug :(( If I use the cracked version of the same (easily available), I would not have such problems ... Neither Magix, nor dongle manufacturer have any idea what is going on ...
I don't get this, and I have the USB power management crap turned off (for other reasons unrelated).
...and I actually like the dongle, since it lets me run the program on 3 computers without having to re-register or lock it to the computer.

G
#29
17th May 2012
Old 17th May 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
In search for nice "spherical" reverbs, I was directed to try Eventide Blackhole plugin, that my friend described as very special for "mystical" kind of reverbs ... (that I always like and just finishing my new Mystical Violin II. CD, it sounded very interesting.)

I downloaded the demo, transfered the demo license on my iLok (and made all those dances around) ... installed everything, the "license" was on the iLok. Yet- it did not work - "no authorisation found". Restarted etc. - still the error message. Checked again the licenses - they were clearly there. Only then I found that "note that this product requires iLok 2". Unbelievable ... So now I am supposed to buy some new iLok (I have just 2 plugins there), to pay extra money, to make all this hassle etc. - just for demoing ?? And why all that ... Even iLok3734 will not prevent any software from being cracked. I was ready to try and if I liked to buy... But not under such obtrusive circumstances. Why to trouble people in this way ? Never ever I will look at anything that has iLok ...

And when I find this plugin in its "free" form soon, I will try and use it with a clear conscience and with pleasure in this form ... The manufacturers should learn not to bother people in this way ... (except the hassle for the honest users, it has absolutely no other effect in a way of some "protection" etc,)
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#30
28th December 2012
Old 28th December 2012
  #30
Gear nut
 
Wave theory's Avatar
 

Had to switch to iLok 2. I can't update because their Windows client installer won't work.

The big bite now is that I can't use my old iLok or the new one. iLok support reports they'll be out of the office for the next 4 days!

I'm blown out of the water! I can't do any work now. Clients are waiting. I'm losing money! Between what the software manufacturers pay them, and what we pay them for the dongles, I wish the iLok company realized that their marginal product is the very weak link to our being able to get our work done.

And a ZDT policy isn't going to help in a situation like this!

It really needs to be more reliable and better supported than it is. Product vendors take note!
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