Snake distance recommendation

[Dr. Cuso]

Hi!

I've been reading post in this forum some months ago but now I'm here inside the field...

I'm building a new truck (my first truck) and taking the word of Remoteness, I will make some questions in the next months.

I've been working in studios fore more than 12 years and I have made some remotes recordings with great success, now I want to move to this area professionally with formal truck. actually there no trucks in this area so I'm the first company offering this service. (north of Mexico)

At this moment I'm working in the splitter, 40 channel 3 way (2 iso) . I will use two 250' of 20 channels each, so I can have the option to use 40 ch 250' or 20ch 500'. I'm using W2 connectors. my question is, how far can I go with splitter? can I use 500' without problems? if not what kind of problems could I found going that far?

Question 2...
Remoteness, can you please explain step by step what this point means.
"Isolation transformer so you can float the neutral of your power source"

I know my english is not perfect, but it is not my first language, so please forgive me if there is any incongruence.

Thanks in advance.

Dr. Cuso

[Dr. Cuso]

Is anybody here? please reply, add your comments.

Thank you!

Cuso

[Steve Smith]

hey man.. I am not so hot on the idea of a 500' mic level run.. maybe with the preamps were on stage, but wow that seems super far.. I have never personally needed more then 250 - 300 feet of snake.

as far as the AC isolation, Remoteness should be back around soon, I made him drive out to St louis for a gig and he is in transit I think..

[TinderArts]

With long runs, it's a good idea to use either an active splitter (BSS, etc..) or pres on stage.

[Dr. Cuso]

Steve and Tinder,

Thanks for your comments!

"long runs not good idea"
What kind of problems may I find going that long,

1)not signal at the end?
2)too much noise?
3)too much lost in frequency response?
4)other?

I've never used a cable mic that far, wondering if just in case of emergency this long would be workable.


Regards
Cuso

[Remoteness]

I'm happy to hear you have been reading our threads. I trust you found our forum helpful.

So, you're building an audio truck in Mexico. Very cool. I worked with Mijares in Mexico City some time ago. I recorded him solo and with various guests for a PPV event, video and CD. I had a real blast over there!

Question?:
Why are you using only 20 channels? If you have a 40 channel, 3 way splitter, why not use a W4 MASS connector and make it a 52 to 56 channel splitter, 40 to 48 splits and the rest as tie lines, etc.? One of my trucks has two 250' 52 channel snakes on board. The standard system can be set up as 250' of 104 channels or 500' of 52 channels when the active splitter or mic pres are on stage.

Here is a link to a thread about long cable runs...
How far do your mic cables reach...

I have to agree with Steve and Tinderarts, 500' is too long for a passive system. When using a passive splitter, I don't like to go more then 250'. 300' is the max! Many folks can hear the difference past 300' feet. Some people, like TV audio, cannot hear the difference and have used 500' with no worries.

To my ears, the high end rolls off the further you go. You can use 500' of snake without sonic problems when you place your mic pres on stage and go line level back to the truck or when using an active mic splitter like the XTA, BSS, KT, etc.

Furthermore, we don't mind bad English. You're doing a great job! Keep up the good word! Hey, some of us speak it as our first language and still cannot spell correctly.

I hope this helped

[Dr. Cuso]

Remoteness,

I'm glad to hear you are back and ok.

Yes, Mijares is kind of our Bruce Springsteen. Did you bring a truck to Mexico City? that is pretty far from NY...

About splitter, I choose this config for some reasons, one is budget, I'm saving probably 50% doing this way, also It seems more easy to work with 20 pair cables (weight) than a big 50+ pair cable. If one cable got damage I still have one, etc.

I would like to hear (read) more about "float the neutral of your power source" topic, can you spend some time telling me about it.

It is great to have access to a forum like this!

Thanks for shearing all your experience.

Regards

Cuso

[Remoteness]

Thanks Dr. C,

Mijares was as nice of a guy as Bruce Springsteen. Mijares was down to Earth and a really cool to hang with. No attitude and/or ego.

We didn't bring the truck to Mexico City. We set up in the sound company's equipment truck. Once the PA was installed into the TV studio, local crew set up a plywood wall across the back of the truck body doors as per my advance recommondation. The wall had an access door and air conditioning install. The recording was done via a portable system provided by one of the local studios. I also brought some goodies from the States

Back in the late 70s, early 80s, we had a similar configuration as you're doing today. We used four 19 pair snakes but not because of budget concerns. The 19 channel snakes were easier to work with plus they can be split up around the stage just like sub snakes without needing to patch the sub snakes into the main snake. Sometimes one snake went to FOH for audience mic'ing. another for the backline, another for the front line mics, yet another for an openning act, etc., etc. Cable damage was also a consideration.

Today the expando truck has three MASS W4 56 pair (music)snakes and eight DT12 12 channel (TV audio) snakes for similar uses as in the old days, just a lot more channels options. The three music snakes are set up as an A and B stage and a House band or Auxilary stage snake. The TV audio snakes are set up as four mic/line input snakes (48 channels) to the broadcast board and the remaining four snakes are set up as 24 output sends and 24 input returns as needed.

When an power isolation transformer is used, you float the Neutral. That is, you're creating your own neutral via the transformer's center tap, so you need not use the venue's Neutral. We have a single phase isolation transformer, so we only need two hots and a ground. This keeps everything ultra clean in the truck. No crap on the Neutral to mess with your system.

Balanced power units are another fine way to deal with this issue. There's an old thread about this...

Click here