2-channel Recorder w Quality ADC and XLR/TRS inputs

[oprema]

I am hoping to get some recommendations on a 2 (or 4) channel recorder w/ decent ADC converters and XLR or TRS inputs. I plan on using this recorder with external preamps and mics.

In my current setup, I use a DAW (PC running Samplitude w/ Lynx L22 soundcard), but as I mostly use 2 channels for my recordings, for the sake of simplicity of setup/operation, and to avoid other issues with my DAW-based setup, I was hoping to find a standalone recorder that wouldn’t feel as too much of a downgrade from my current setup in terms of sound quality.

As I will be using external preamps and mics, my only concerns are ADC/audio engine quality of this unit as well as the requirement that the device should not be noisy.

Most recordings (voice & an instrument recorded simultaneously) will be done in an apartment room, so other than usual concerns of recording in an untreated room, which I can do little about at this time, this unit would not have to meet any extra requirements in terms of durability.

Thanks

[John Willett]

What's your budget?

I use the Nagra VI for this sort of thing (record and edit on Sequoia) - but the mic. pres are so good, you won't need external pres at all.

You could look at the cheaper Nagra LB, or the Sound Devices 700 range - all these are good too.

[hughesmr]

I've used the Korg MR1000 for several years now and love it. I always record in DSD and it sounds GREAT to my ears, and 24-bit PCM files created from them using the included Audiogate software retain most all of the magic. You can also record up to 24/192 PCM in the box, but I've never done it.

My typical 2-tk rig is Schoeps/Sennheiser -> BG1 -> MR1000.

[Petrus]

Sound Devices 722, just add mics...

[marvin100]

Originally Posted by Petrus

Sound Devices 722, just add mics...

Yep

[eoats]

You can't go wrong with the Sound Devices.

I went on a budget path & got a Tascam HD-P2 that I'm very content with.
The Tascam DR 680 is what I would buy to replace my 2 channel recorder.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...0-preamps.html

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Petrus

Sound Devices 722, just add mics...

+1
or 702. If you do need 4 tracks, it's the 744, with 3&4 fed from external preamps.

[JonesH]

The minute Sound Devices releases a 744 with 4 preamps I'm ordering. The 7XX series are great.

[oprema]

Thank you all for replying to my posting! There seems to be an agreement on the quality of Sound Devices recorders. I have their headphone preamp and I can only attest to its build/sound quality.

From everything I‘ve read so far, Nagra units seem to be top of the line, but their price is way out of my budget (I know I didn’t provide any info on this in my initial posting, but I was looking for something below 2k).

I have also read a lot of good reviews on DR-680, and this unit is significantly cheaper. While I have no doubts that the overall build quality od Sound Devices units is better, i.e. better quality components/specs, I should try to track down one of the DR-680 recorders , to test it out and see if it would work for me.

I should say that the quality of built-in preamps is the least of a concern to me. I currently use couple Daking preamps and would most likely keep using them anyway as I really like their sonic color. What I do care about are line inputs/ADCs.

As I said, in most cases, 2-channel recorder would be sufficient for my needs, but I’d be curious to find out what are current options as for quality stand-alone multitrack recorders that allow for additional track overdubbing. As I understand it, by design and their intended purpose, none of the discussed units offer this feature. I’m aware of systems like Radar, but they are well above my budget.

Thanks.

[Gaston69]

Originally Posted by oprema

Thank you all for replying to my posting! There seems to be an agreement on the quality of Sound Devices recorders. I have their headphone preamp and I can only attest to its build/sound quality.

From everything I‘ve read so far, Nagra units seem to be top of the line, but their price is way out of my budget (I know I didn’t provide any info on this in my initial posting, but I was looking for something below 2k).

I have also read a lot of good reviews on DR-680, and this unit is significantly cheaper. While I have no doubts that the overall build quality od Sound Devices units is better, i.e. better quality components/specs, I should try to track down one of the DR-680 recorders , to test it out and see if it would work for me.

I should say that the quality of built-in preamps is the least of a concern to me. I currently use couple Daking preamps and would most likely keep using them anyway as I really like their sonic color. What I do care about are line inputs/ADCs.

As I said, in most cases, 2-channel recorder would be sufficient for my needs, but I’d be curious to find out what are current options as for quality stand-alone multitrack recorders that allow for additional track overdubbing. As I understand it, by design and their intended purpose, none of the discussed units offer this feature. I’m aware of systems like Radar, but they are well above my budget.

Thanks.

I recently purchased a Nagra Vi therefor I will sell my Nagra LB, check out the classifieds maybe it fits your budget?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by oprema

(I know I didn’t provide any info on this in my initial posting, but I was looking for something below 2k).

The Nagra LB is £1,600.

Nagra will also shortly be bringing out a two-channel mic. pre. with the same mic. pres. as are in the Nagra VI - I understand that there will be a version of this with a built-in recorder - that may be worth looking at.

If not these, the SD 700 series.

[oprema]

Thanks. I'd definitely prefer something well made, but Nagra is beyond my budget for the time being. 2-channel Sound Devices recorders are as expensive as I could afford at this time.

I've just found out about Sound Devices USBPre 2. If I'm reading it correctly, converters and preamps on this device are similar to those on 744T.

It seems worth then considering an option of using USBPre 2 on the front end and connecting it to a small 2 channel recorder via its S/PDIF output.

I'd be interested to know if anyone uses this setup. With this setup, actual recorder requirements would even be lower: S/PDIF input and good audio algorithm/engine. Moreover, USBpre 2 could have dual use, i.e. could also be used as a Macbook/laptop interface (I guess, that's what it's designed for).

This may seem like a moving target, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone uses this setup, and if this works well, what recorder would be a good match, without being an overkill, given that preamp/converter part of the equation would be taken care of with USBPre 2.

[JEGG]

oprema-

In addition to the many good suggestions made here, please consider also these 2 channel devices:

The Tascam HD-P2-excellent, pro menu and navigation-even during the recording, pro features, useful file navigation features, time code, excellent sound, good battery life, pro file management (file is continually opened and saved every few seconds during recording), very flexible powering options with very precise voltage readings always available on any attached sources, FireWire computer connection,

The Tascam DR-100 Near the bottom of price point, first rate recorded sound with external mic's. Strange but useful dual battery power system, some ergonomic niggles, USB computer connection and charging, way better than it should be! Crappy on board directional mic's, unusable on board omni mic's.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by eoats

You can't go wrong with the Sound Devices.

I went on a budget path & got a Tascam HD-P2 that I'm very content with.
The Tascam DR 680 is what I would buy to replace my 2 channel recorder.

Tascam's Chinese-made DR-680 kicks a$$.

[9sbean]

My experience with Sound Devices 722 is excellent quality mic pre and ADC, probably the best among all 2 tracks, since I did not test all 2 tracks on the market. The only problem I experienced was a serious crash which cost a lot to repair. I expect Sound Devices to be like a never crash tank, which I believe is reasonable.

Tascam HD-P2 is OK, headphone amplifier is apparently not good compared to the mic pre of the same unit.

Same problem with DR-680. You'll hear some noises that is not in the recording. Considering the price, DR-680 is definetly the best buy. Suggest check all inputs when you receive it. I return a unit which has serious problem on CH3.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by 9sbean

My experience with Sound Devices 722 is excellent quality mic pre and ADC ...

As an owner of two SD recorders and other SD gear I concur completely. Build and sound quality are world class. When I had a firewire problem with my 744T, SD fixed it fast at no cost. I've never had a recording fail with either recorder.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by oprema

Thanks. I'd definitely prefer something well made, but Nagra is beyond my budget for the time being. 2-channel Sound Devices recorders are as expensive as I could afford at this time.

The Nagra LB is cheaper than the SD 702 - at least where I am.



Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

[Petrus]

I bought the SD722 because of the instant backup. In 3 years time I have had ONE instance, where the CF file had a 10 sec dropout but HD was perfect. Was that worth the price difference between 702 and 722, maybe not, but the peace of mind...

Of course with 702 you can use external FW HD as a backup, but that means AC power for the HD, not always convenient.

[iksrazal]

I'm looking at Sound devices 702 for my home OTB studio. This is only a hobby for me - I can re-track as needed. Where I'm in doubt is the mic level inputs on the 702, where I was planning on TRS. I'm in research mode but this is what I'm looking at doing:

Synths / drum machines (no mic recording) --> balanced speck xtramix --> balanced joeco blackbox. Then mix thru the xtramix and API 5500 eq into a 2-channel recorder.

Any advice on a 2-channel recorder for what I'm trying to do? Flash / SSD storage would be ideal, no firewire needed.

[ghellquist]

Originally Posted by iksrazal

I'm looking at Sound devices 702 for my home OTB studio. This is only a hobby for me - I can re-track as needed. Where I'm in doubt is the mic level inputs on the 702, where I was planning on TRS. I'm in research mode but this is what I'm looking at doing:

Level is not a problem, there is a line level switch, you only need a cable.

As for recorder, the 7xx machines are lovely, and a bit on the expensive side. You will probably get as good sounding results in 95% of the cases using one of the modern small machines. I have heard good things about the Sony PCM-M10 using the line in. You will need some cabling of course.

// Gunnar

[iksrazal]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

Level is not a problem, there is a line level switch, you only need a cable.

As for recorder, the 7xx machines are lovely, and a bit on the expensive side. You will probably get as good sounding results in 95% of the cases using one of the modern small machines. I have heard good things about the Sony PCM-M10 using the line in. You will need some cabling of course.

// Gunnar

Seems like a big part of the 702 is the mic pres, would it make sense to use one exclusively for 2buss line level?

The problem I'm having is finding things that match what I need. For example I need balanced inputs, which the PCM-M10 doesn't have.

Off topic for this thread, but I don't need the 24 tracks of the joeco, just 8 for the groups out of the xtramix, and I can't find anything like the DR-680 that has 8 balanced line level inputs for tracking _and_ also has 8 balanced line level outputs for OTB mixing .

[heva]

Fostex FR2-LE, but that might be low-endish compared to what has already suggested...

[marvin100]

The Nagras are awesome machines, but where you live (St. Paul), they're significantly pricier than Sound Devices. In Yerp this is not the case. But that's presumably irrelevant to you (and to me here in Asia)

[ghellquist]

Originally Posted by iksrazal

The problem I'm having is finding things that match what I need. For example I need balanced inputs, which the PCM-M10 doesn't have.

Hmm.
My personal opinion on this is that we seldom actually need balanced signals when at line level. At mic level of course, but line level only on long runs or in an environment with lots of net or radio frequence interference.

The balanced connection does not make the sound better, in fact it often very slightly degrades the signal quality compared to a good unbalanced, it is there to remove external interference.

The next thing is that the state of the small recording boxes now has progressed to a level where we quickly are into the ground of diminishing returns. Even low-priced equipment can now be at the same level or better as far as the "recording medium" goes as old-time professional tape recorders were at their hey-day. And there are good older recordings done with that equipment. I referr to the AD/storage part of the system, especillly since we do the DA part later. Of course those tape recorders had quality analog circuitry which the cheaper boxes of tiday does not have. It all boils down however to what is "good enough" for a specific purpose. On the other hand, sometimes there really is no "good enough", only the security of having "the very best available".

I find that sometimes it pays ( in lower costs ) to challenge some of our notions, but then again sometimes we really need that balancing act.

And yes, it does make sense to use a 702 for line inputs with external pres. Lots of people does it that way. You might however find that the mic pres are good enough for you to elect to leave the external mic pres at home. They certainly are good enough, but you might like the flavor of your mic pres better and then the box is there to deliver.


// Gunnar

[iksrazal]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

Hmm.
My personal opinion on this is that we seldom actually need balanced signals when at line level. At mic level of course, but line level only on long runs or in an environment with lots of net or radio frequence interference.

The balanced connection does not make the sound better, in fact it often very slightly degrades the signal quality compared to a good unbalanced, it is there to remove external interference.
// Gunnar

Wise words, thanks for reminding me of that. Its just that the mixer I'm leaning to get has balanced inputs and outputs so I get caught up in too much perfection and too much $$$ . Just looked at the tascam HS-8, which has 8 balanced ins and outs like I thought I need but its $7K , and still seemingly can't playback like 6 channels and record 2buss at the same time . I think I'm going to come back to this in a year or two after everything goes flash / SSD and isn't so specialized. Might just get a PCM-M10 for now, thanks.

[oprema]

Once again, thank you for recommendations. After thinking this through some more, and considering recommended options, I realized that for my own uses, there is certain flexibility associated with the use of DAWs that is still a part of my workflow (including track overdubbing even if this feature is not something I regularly use), So, after all, it feels like it may be best for me to stay working within that kind of a setup.

I'm really glad that I found out about SD USBPre 2! This interface is high on my list now, and as it's getting close to the time where I'll be replacing my current computer, if the new one ends up not having a PCI slot to accommodate my Lynx card, this will most likely be the interface I will end up getting.

So, I think, for the time being, I’ll explore the option of silent computers to at least eliminate one of the biggest problems that I have with my current setup: computer noise.

[tsvisser]

One last shot, for the portable recorders... I went through this dilemma quite a bit when I was shopping for a cheap backup recorder and wanted something that had balanced inputs, did not have on-board mics, as my use was only for line inputs. I ended up selecting the Senor Uno, AKA Korg MR-1. It is now discontinued (but still easy to find), and even though its balanced inputs are on mini jacks, a small investment in mini to XLR or 1/4" TRS cables will address that. Even though the jacks are mini, they are each mono balanced, not to be confused with the stereo unbalanced mini connectors on most other gear. I'm not even going to mention what my primary recorder is.

[oprema]

tsvisser, thank you for this recommendation. I looked at MR-1 before, and didn't notice that its mini inputs were balanced. It seems that the newer MR-2 model no longer offers that feature. I would be very interested to find out what your thoughts are on its line input/converter quality and its performance when compared to other studio gear you've had a chance to use. As I mentioned before, I would also be using thsi device with external preamps/mics.

[tsvisser]

For line input use, it is very nice. I haven't done extensive A/B comparisons or anything with my main recorder, but I certainly haven't noticed it messing up the sound of anything. The menu system and small plastic transport keys are not the best in user friendliness, but better than many small recorders like these.

There are some new smaller recorders that do allow overdubs, by the way. I'm sure editing features are rather limited, but I much appreciate not having to crack open a computer when I need to grab some audio.

The one that I have is going to be replacing the function of an Alesis Masterlink for a popular CBS TV show's ADR session - as a backup recorder. Sure, the audio will probably never be used, but I'm happy enough with it to recommend it be placed in such a mission critical environment.

[oprema]

Thanks tsvisser. This info is very helpful to me. I will definitely look into this recorder.

You also mentioned smaller recorders with overdubbing capability, but I'm not aware of any quality ones. Did you have any specific one in mind?