Can you mix Jazz on an SSL?

[pieter]

Guys,

I am considering the purchase of an AWS900 series desk.

I do a lot of pop and electro for which of course SSL is a top reference.

However, I also record and mix quite some acoustic music as well as Jazz, where I have the impression it is less the table of choice...

For the SSL users amongst you, does the SSL sound lend itself for this type of music as well?

Looking forward to having your thoughts on this.

Regards,

[kittonian]

You can mix any type of music on any type of equipment.

Yes, the SSL will work just fine for jazz, but a lot of jazz artists want that really thick end result and so you may want to add in some nice outboard gear with transformers. The SSL sound is extremely clean/transparent with the AWS900.

When I think of rock SSL consoles I think of the SSL 4000 series which was not super transparent/clean. The harder you pushed it the more it broke up in a really nice way. The SSL 9000 has so much headroom that when you push that console it does not break up in a nice way. Just two different topologies that both have great sound in different ways.

Hope that helps!

[Unique]

AWS900 is a clean console (transparent) suitable to acoustic/jazz work.

Now you would always miss sometimes the specific sound of discrete Neve mic-pre/EQ units .... unless you would have them at hand.

Sometimes a Spider 8 channels direct to 2-track high rez digital recorder with quality condenser microphones (made in EU or Japan) ... may be magic for a small band setup.

[RusRant]

I have mixed jazz in the long ago past on an SSL 4k, as well as about every other genre. I've never known a 4k to break up in an actually pleasing way. They have miles of headroom and then begin to choak at the extreme. I've always found them to be pretty clean and uncluttered. I've always thought of jazz in a more uncolored manner when it comes to mixing. More letting the instruments breath and have space. But YMMV.

[Audio Hombre]

is this a serious question? i think before the advent of recording forums, you would never, ever hear this question. if one was to call a studio with an ssl inquiring whether or not it would be worthy / able or sufficient to mix jazz on, the question would get a rather incredulous response.

[pieter]

I am not asking this question vis a vis clients' expectations. It is just that I as many of the new engineers I have never mixed on a real board.

My current setup is based around PT HD with very high quality outboard and analog summing (Dangerous 2bus).

I just want to gather some opinions (for sure I will not base my decision solely on these) on whether the SSL sound is 'compatible' or not with Jazz.

ie for me it is a rather serious question as lots of money is involved ...

[sailor]

World class consoles like SSL, Neve, API, Harrison etc are all built to an extremely high spec in terms of audio quality, robustness and reliability with the express intent that they can handle anything you throw at them.

Some operators may prefer one over the other for a certain set of characteristics or features, but no serious person will argue that a given brand of ultra high-end console is genuinely unsuitable for a specific style of music.

You can mix any kind of music on any of the above, and others, with absolutely no worries.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by pieter

It is just that I as many of the new engineers I have never mixed on a real board.

With that in mind, and realizing that this is a costly expenditure that is not easily traded out like a mic or guitar, I suggest that you go book some time in various studios to try out mixing on different console topologies. A console is AT LEAST as much about ergonomics as sound (or lack thereof).

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by pieter

Guys,

I am considering the purchase of an AWS900 series desk.

I do a lot of pop and electro for which of course SSL is a top reference.

However, I also record and mix quite some acoustic music as well as Jazz, where I have the impression it is less the table of choice...

For the SSL users amongst you, does the SSL sound lend itself for this type of music as well?

Looking forward to having your thoughts on this.

Regards,

I believe the jazz police will have you arrested if you try to mix jazz on an SSL.

[dirker]

Originally Posted by drBill

With that in mind, and realizing that this is a costly expenditure that is not easily traded out like a mic or guitar, I suggest that you go book some time in various studios to try out mixing on different console topologies. A console is AT LEAST as much about ergonomics as sound (or lack thereof).

Yep. The SSL is totally up to the task of providing professional quality results for any music whatsoever. If you desire a more altered/colored/processed sound for a particular project, use outboard gear.

Why are you considering buying a desk in the first place? I'm guessing that the ergonomics of having faders & knobs is the reason, and it's a good one. If you want to use faders & knobs, and want to be able to automate it all, then SSL may be your best choice. (If you don't care about automating everything, then there are many more options.) The other option for having both automation & faders/knobs is staying with your outboard summing, & buying a control surface for your DAW. I'd recommend thoroughly trying & comparing those two options before making your choice.

Regardless of the quality of your outboard mic pre's, you may find that using a console pre's for tracking can improve the workflow so much that it is worth any slight sacrifice in sound quality. Obviously a control surface does not provide this option.

[mu6gr8]

Mixed jazz records on 4000E/G and 9000J desks, and they sounded like jazz records. Also mixed jazz records through Dangerous 2-Bus (like you already have, Pieter), and they also sounded like jazz records. All of your options should sound fine.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by kittonian

You can mix any type of music on any type of equipment.

And there it is.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by pieter

I am not asking this question vis a vis clients' expectations. It is just that I as many of the new engineers I have never mixed on a real board.

You were completely ITB in 2003?

[bassjam]

AWS is a great board for pop and Jazz, LOADS of headroom.

Just get some nice pre's like the Neve 1073LB 500 series modules and a neve bus compressor, maybe an anamod 670 and your laughing!

Im sure if you give Mike Banks at SSL in england he could hook you up a demo not far from where your located!

Greg

[ronzie]

Originally Posted by kittonian

You can mix any type of music on any type of equipment.

Yes, the SSL will work just fine for jazz, but a lot of jazz artists want that really thick end result and so you may want to add in some nice outboard gear with transformers. The SSL sound is extremely clean/transparent with the AWS900.

When I think of rock SSL consoles I think of the SSL 4000 series which was not super transparent/clean. The harder you pushed it the more it broke up in a really nice way. The SSL 9000 has so much headroom that when you push that console it does not break up in a nice way. Just two different topologies that both have great sound in different ways.

Hope that helps!

Huh? Jazz artists want a thick result? Outboard/Transformers? They want their shit to sound like the room they've gathered to play in. If they play/arrange,thick that's the way they'll want it to sound. They aren't there for the console.

Huh? The 4K was considered lean and clean when it came out compared to other mainstay consoles. You can turn it over sure,but you don't have to. Some 4k's had transformers ya know..

Huh? 9k headroom? Servo mix buss,yeah. Channels? What headroom?? It borders on being a Helios (read: almost enough head room). At least it makes you pull mics back if you want clean takes.

Yep. The 900's clean. Too clean for most...

Your post started out quiet well though.

Ron Allaire

[Funny Cat]

Originally Posted by kittonian

You can mix any type of music on any type of equipment.

I 3rd this ^^^^^^ statement after UBK.....


Also, I have to admit, I don't have tons of experience with jazz, but I did have the opportunity to do a couple of large jazz sessions in the late 90's on an SSL4000E and it sounded like... jazz. The main thing to keep in mind is that the majority of the jazz "sound" is coming from the musician's axes and the miking technique (less close miking in jazz). Remember to lay off the compression when mixing and if you have any worries, don't hesitate to ask the musicians if they like the sound they are hearing and adjust accordingly because jazz cats usually know what they are after.

[bassjam]

YouTube - The Fast Show - Jazz Club (Piles Husain)

[bassjam]

YouTube - The Very Best of Jazz Club

[antti]

Sure you can mix Jazz on SSL.. btw you have a very nice set-up, congrats!

If I was in your boots I wouldn't spend the money on the SSL but getting
more nice mics (tubes, ribbons, quality dynamics) & some outboard reverbs (Emt plate, Akg spring, Lexicon for the 'ECM' sound, etc). Never have too many instruments either and if you buy the right stuff they are ofcourse a great investment too. But if you think the SSL will bring more pop clients then I understand your choice.

[ray_subsonic]

Originally Posted by ronzie

They want their shit to sound like the room they've gathered to play in. If they play/arrange,thick that's the way they'll want it to sound. They aren't there for the console.

Amen.

[The MPCist]

For jazz, you can use an SSL AWS or 9000J---I wouldn't choose the G though.

But, if you got outboard, I would think that mixing hybrid/ITB would fetch you good results as well!

[GGreen]

No you are all wrong ,

Jazz can only be recorded correctly by people with large beards and leatherette elbow patches.

SSL *pffft*

Beards.

Gareth

[Martini Hill]

Ha! Too funny! Made my day!

Originally Posted by Drumsound

I believe the jazz police will have you arrested if you try to mix jazz on an SSL.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

is this a serious question?

It's a fair question. Obviously he knows you "can" mix on an SSL, so he meant "should." Some brands/designs sound better with particular genres than others, so the question isn't odd to me at all.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by elambo

It's a fair question. Obviously he knows you "can" mix on an SSL, so he meant "should." Some brands/designs sound better with particular genres than others, so the question isn't odd to me at all.

I agree with you, it's obvious he cares about sound and although I totally understand where other people are coming from I don't think it's necessarily a bad question.

[theother]

Originally Posted by kittonian

When I think of rock SSL consoles I think of the SSL 4000 series which was not super transparent/clean. The harder you pushed it the more it broke up in a really nice way.

It's a cliche and myth about 4k's I don't agree with. Our desk was super clean when needed and had lots of headroom. Don't know about this 'breaking up' business. Reminds me about tape machines and people always talking about driving them hard into distortion, saturation etc. (I never drive my Studer hard and this is when it sounds the best to my ears. It's not a fuzz pedal!)
We also updated our VCA's and fitted the best caps we could find which if anything was the reason a 4k sounded a bit limited in the past compared to a 9000 K series.

I found the headroom of the AWS much more problematic. Also when you push the EQ's they have an almost self-oscillating, not very pleasant sound compared to the original black-E-EQ on a later 4k.
I guess the problem with the AWS is that they use SMT and I, along with some other designers, think the smaller the components the smaller the sound. You can say I'm wrong, but I stand by it.

If you mix jazz I think any decent good quality desk is up to the task but my focus would be on the recording side when working with jazz!

[bassjam]

Use bigger electrons! Makes the sound much bigger!

Originally Posted by theother

It's a cliche and myth about 4k's I don't agree with. Our desk was super clean when needed and had lots of headroom. Don't know about this 'breaking up' business. Reminds me about tape machines and people always talking about driving them hard into distortion, saturation etc. (I never drive my Studer hard and this is when it sounds the best to my ears. It's not a fuzz pedal!)
We also updated our VCA's and fitted the best caps we could find which if anything was the reason a 4k sounded a bit limited in the past compared to a 9000 K series.

I found the headroom of the AWS much more problematic. Also when you push the EQ's they have an almost self-oscillating, not very pleasant sound compared to the original black-E-EQ on a later 4k.
I guess the problem with the AWS is that they use SMT and I, along with some other designers, think the smaller the components the smaller the sound. You can say I'm wrong, but I stand by it.

If you mix jazz I think any decent good quality desk is up to the task but my focus would be on the recording side when working with jazz!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by ronzie

Huh? Jazz artists want a thick result? Outboard/Transformers? They want their shit to sound like the room they've gathered to play in.

ha!

Actually - they want it to sound like they THINK it sounds in the room...... big difference! They want Charlie Mingus - they want Coltrane..... they want soaked and saturated. they just don't know it !!

[MidasHatesGold]

Originally Posted by bassjam

YouTube - The Very Best of Jazz Club

greeaat!!!!

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by Martini Hill

Ha! Too funny! Made my day!

Thanks, man. *bow*

Originally Posted by GGreen

No you are all wrong ,

Jazz can only be recorded correctly by people with large beards and leatherette elbow patches.

SSL *pffft*

Beards.

Gareth

This was also super funny. Thanks for not making me the only joker in the thread.