thinking about going live

[gumby1220]

I have been thinking about making the change and going into live/onset recording. I have experience in studios and have my own little "home studio", but not sure what i have would work for live and onset recording. I currently have a digi002r, macbook pro 15", behringer bcf2000, art tps II, 2 art pro vla II, and an assortment of low cost mics. would this be adequate for live/onset recording. also if i'm not doing front of house but am recording the gig would a splitter be necessary?

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by gumby1220

also if i'm not doing front of house but am recording the gig would a splitter be necessary?

Yes, you'll nee a splitter even if you are doing FOH. Click on the Splitter tag and you'll find many threads about them.

[gumby1220]

alright thanks for for the reply. I've been looking at the art s8 splitter. other then that do you think my current setup is a realistic start to get into live/onset recording?

[gumby1220]

alright so i figure getting a behringer ada8000 and 2 art s8 splitters will be sufficient enough for me to get started in the live/on set recording seen. well will actually get me to my max tracks minus the two spidf channels.

[rprecording]

A number of books out there about location recording. This one's pretty good...

Amazon.com: Recording Music on Location (9780240808918): Bruce Bartlett, Jenny Bartlett: Books

BTW, that ART S8 works pretty nice. A couple of stage snakes will come in handy too (instead of running individual mic lines all over the place, run a single snake then fan out from there with short mic lines...less wires all over the place and faster setup/teardown).

[gumby1220]

Originally Posted by rprecording

A number of books out there about location recording. This one's pretty good...

Amazon.com: Recording Music on Location (9780240808918): Bruce Bartlett, Jenny Bartlett: Books

BTW, that ART S8 works pretty nice. A couple of stage snakes will come in handy too (instead of running individual mic lines all over the place, run a single snake then fan out from there with short mic lines...less wires all over the place and faster setup/teardown).

thanks already have a couple books on live recording that I just started reading it's alot like the studio in a way from what i've been reading so far.

Good to hear the ART s8 is a good piece of gear. I know ART makes good quality gear but always nice to have it confirmed when making a new purchase.

[RobAnderson]

Adequate for what? Recordings for commercial CD's? Doing stuff for fun/friends? What style of music?

Live recording is quite different in many ways from studio recording. This is not to say that having a studio background is not helpful - quite the contrary. Good sound is good sound, signal flow is signal flow, and knowing your tools and how to use them is crucial. But I think you will find that live recording is a very different animal in a number of ways.

One thing I see missing from your list is a Plan B.

If there is one absolutely major thing that really differentiates live recording from studio recording, it is that if something does not work, or something goes wrong, you can't stop the session and ask for another take.

You can't just walk down the hall to Studio B and "grab the other one" of whatever it is that is fried. If you don't have it with you, you might be fried if something goes wrong at the worst possible time (which is generally when it decides to go wrong ).

If the event happens and for some reason you didn't capture it, there is very rarely a second chance.

[gumby1220]

well not quite commercially but not for friends either. I'm looking to start recording local talent at local venues for a small fee. Mainly rock style, but really open to recording anything that is music.

didn't think about having a back up plan. i should definitely look into that. I guess thats why alot of the setups i've been looking at have adat recorders and other types of digital recorders other then software based daw. I do see how in many aspects it is going to be different than in the studio but in many ways familiar. atleast along the lines of mic placement and what not. I do realize the pace is going to be much faster than in the studio.

[rprecording]

Rob's point is good; the difficulty you face is that, folks who have been doing location recording for awhile possibly/probably have experienced a situation that drove home the advantage of having a backup recording system.

Folks who are just getting started, on the other hand, are faced with having to spend a pile of bucks to put together a pretty basic system to begin with. So even if they (you) appreciate the advantage/need of a backup system it becomes a question of what's the advantage of having a solid backup recorder if I dont have any money to buy mic's???

My personal experience (and I suspect it's similar to other folks) was to build an initial system that did not have a backup recorder. Used that to go out and do some work for awhile. Risky but I tried to find jobs in which the risk was reduced (recording bands in their rehearsal space turned out to be a good thing...they could get a nice recording but if something went buggered we still had the option of re-recording...you wont make top dollar on this kind of thing but you can make a few dinero and get some experience at the same time).

Eventually I picked up a backup system and added that to the rig. It kind of boils down to an economic issue. Generally, you'll be faced with limited resources and un-limited needs (desires?).

Make a list of all the stuff you'ld like to have then put a check mark by the stuff that you absolutely have to have. There's your priorities.

[gumby1220]

Originally Posted by rprecording

Rob's point is good; the difficulty you face is that, folks who have been doing location recording for awhile possibly/probably have experienced a situation that drove home the advantage of having a backup recording system.

Folks who are just getting started, on the other hand, are faced with having to spend a pile of bucks to put together a pretty basic system to begin with. So even if they (you) appreciate the advantage/need of a backup system it becomes a question of what's the advantage of having a solid backup recorder if I dont have any money to buy mic's???

My personal experience (and I suspect it's similar to other folks) was to build an initial system that did not have a backup recorder. Used that to go out and do some work for awhile. Risky but I tried to find jobs in which the risk was reduced (recording bands in their rehearsal space turned out to be a good thing...they could get a nice recording but if something went buggered we still had the option of re-recording...you wont make top dollar on this kind of thing but you can make a few dinero and get some experience at the same time).

Eventually I picked up a backup system and added that to the rig. It kind of boils down to an economic issue. Generally, you'll be faced with limited resources and un-limited needs (desires?).

Make a list of all the stuff you'ld like to have then put a check mark by the stuff that you absolutely have to have. There's your priorities.

Karl,

Thanks for the input and help. You have been a huge help, and i will be holding out on getting a back up recorder. that way i can get better mics than what i currently have. I like what you suggested on recording bands in their rehearsal space. Thanks again your insight and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[RobAnderson]

Backups are a topic that have been done to death here, and at one point generated a bunch of controversy, so I'll politely disagree with Karl here and not post on the subject again.

I'll leave you with these two thoughts (and they're worth exactly what you are paying for them):
I can make an acceptable recording with budget mic's and preamps if I have to. On the other hand, if the recording doesn't happen, it does not matter how good the mic's were.

If you are charging someone for your services, you are presenting yourself as a professional. If that is the case, what is your professional reputation worth? Do you want to have to apologise to the client because your laptop took a dump in the middle of the concert?

Maybe that's perfectly acceptable in some circles. You know your target clientele so YMMV.

[gumby1220]

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

Backups are a topic that have been done to death here, and at one point generated a bunch of controversy, so I'll politely disagree with Karl here and not post on the subject again.

I'll leave you with these two thoughts (and they're worth exactly what you are paying for them):
I can make an acceptable recording with budget mic's and preamps if I have to. On the other hand, if the recording doesn't happen, it does not matter how good the mic's were.

If you are charging someone for your services, you are presenting yourself as a professional. If that is the case, what is your professional reputation worth? Do you want to have to apologise to the client because your laptop took a dump in the middle of the concert?

Maybe that's perfectly acceptable in some circles. You know your target clientele so YMMV.

you do make great points and i will most definitely get a back-up in the hopefully near future. the reason for me buying new/better mics then what i already have is not only that but i also need more. right now I don't have enough mics to record a full band. i do have mics to do a drum set and a singer but i know more will be needed in a live gig. i wish i had the funds to get mics and a backup source but unfortunately i do not.

[gumby1220]

ok i just received an ART S8 so i can recorded up to 8 channels. will be getting and ada8000 or something similar along side with another S8 for a total of 16 channels soon. I am going to be asking the local high school and middle school choirs if they need any recordings. hopefully yes and I can start getting some experience in on the live world. here is a pic of my little home setup. need to get a road rack case because this wood rack is one heavy s.o.b.

[RobAnderson]

need to get a road rack case because this wood rack is one heavy s.o.b.

Yeah - you definitely will need real road cases. That wood one won't provide protection for the front and back of your gear (which is rather important). No matter how careful you are, stuff will get banged around, so protect your investment.

Unfortunately, good road cases are also heavy, so some sort of wheels are a good investment.

FWIW, I break my rig up into several road cases. This accomplishes a few things:
- easier to carry and transport than a single large case;
- makes the rig modular, so I can easily scale it larger or smaller as I need to, without having to re-rack everything;
- While I can't leave everything connected, I can include all of the necessary cabling with each case, so it makes packing a little easier.

The splitters are in their own case, so I can leave them on stage where they need to be. With just one tweak, I can also leave the pre's on-stage (separate from the recorders) if I wanted to.

[gumby1220]

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

Yeah - you definitely will need real road cases. That wood one won't provide protection for the front and back of your gear (which is rather important). No matter how careful you are, stuff will get banged around, so protect your investment.

Unfortunately, good road cases are also heavy, so some sort of wheels are a good investment.

FWIW, I break my rig up into several road cases. This accomplishes a few things:

yeah i think i just may have to split the gear up into more then 1 case for easy transfer.

[Manfrensengensen]

I started doing FOH work a few years back just doing club cover band gigs.
I use my rack gear, and mixer. (I know my gear best). The bands have their own PA gear. I bring extra amps, mic's, tools, etc (I also have a complete small system. Then I wanted to learn recording too so I started using a Motu off my Allen & Heath. Then wanted more than 8 tracks so switched to a Mackie 1640i. I use MacBookpro and logic.
Not "high end" but gets the job done.
I guess my back up would be an apogee AD16x and cost 2.5 times the mixer cost, and a spare MBP and some d-sub cables. I'm a photographer too so I can mix, record and do promo shots too. Lol.

I'm still learning logic and not getting paid to mix the recordings. I usually give the band the tracks to do what they want unless they want to pay me to make a demo with a few songs. This gives me some material to learn more. Because i'm doing the sound for live gigs I don't require splitters as you would need if tapping into someone elses system.

[Audionaut]

Okay, I’m not a huge fan of PreSonus products, but the Studiolive 24.4.2 digital mixer I just installed is awesome! EQ, Filter, Gates, Compression, limiter on every channel, 10 auxes, 4 subgroups with output delays, 6 assignable 31 band graphic EQs, recording & playback on all channels- We literally got rid of every piece outboard gear at the venue and replaced them with this one unit. I hate to sound like a commercial, but I'm never going back to analog for live sound.
If you're looking to do live recording, this unit is a real game changer for the money. Its a mixer, it's a recording interface, It's racks of signal processing, it's speaker management...Recording software included, remote control of EVERY mixer function with laptop or iPad via wifi. Recall everything with the touch of a button.
On the down side... this is Presonus, so the head amps and mix bus are mushier than say a Yamaha LS9 or better, but we're talking less than 1/2 the price.

[gumby1220]

Originally Posted by Audionaut

Okay, I’m not a huge fan of PreSonus products, but the Studiolive 24.4.2 digital mixer I just installed is awesome! EQ, Filter, Gates, Compression, limiter on every channel, 10 auxes, 4 subgroups with output delays, 6 assignable 31 band graphic EQs, recording & playback on all channels- We literally got rid of every piece outboard gear at the venue and replaced them with this one unit. I hate to sound like a commercial, but I'm never going back to analog for live sound.
If you're looking to do live recording, this unit is a real game changer for the money. Its a mixer, it's a recording interface, It's racks of signal processing, it's speaker management...Recording software included, remote control of EVERY mixer function with laptop or iPad via wifi. Recall everything with the touch of a button.
On the down side... this is Presonus, so the head amps and mix bus are mushier than say a Yamaha LS9 or better, but we're talking less than 1/2 the price.

a buddy of mine has the studiolive 16.4.2 I haven't used it, but he raves about it and has nothing but good things to say about it. unfortunately it is out of my price range at the moment. otherwise, i would snatch one up.

[gumby1220]

alright got myself a road case, will be getting a second one once I get an additional spliter and adat pre's/converter. but i am road ready for upto 8 channels