Best Reverb(s) for Classical Music?

[mpdonahue]

Originally Posted by sonare

Mark-- is this ratio derived from 10% per mic (and 9 spots in the example) and 10% on mains or 90% send on each spot? And is this in a relatively good room?
Ever use different IRs on spots vs main?
Rich

What I mean by 90% from the spots is that if you listen to the feed to the reverb, it is comprised of a mix of 90% spot mics and 10% mains. Often there are no mains, especially in good halls. My reverb feed is usually a polar opposite of my mix, the mics that are used least in the mix are most prominient in the reverb send.
WRT using different reverbs, I virtually never use more that one reverb on location. It's really easy to add an overall reverb in mastering to wet things up, so I shoot for a good balance with good blend on location that'll tell me what I really have to work with in post. I'm luckier that most because I get to work in pretty good halls from the start. However, budgets being what they are these days, I'm back to doing live mixes a lot more often even in surround. I always err on the dry side. Even though I'm using my live mix, I still print multitracks so I can use them to generate reverb if necessary in post.

All the best,
-mark

[Richard Black]

Adobe Audition (I actually still use Cool Edit Pro 2.0) has a 'Full Reverb' which is extremely flexible if you've the patience to learn how to use it efficiently. Like a lot of things in AA, its very flexibility makes it a bit of a head-scratcher to get used to, but there's basically nothing if won't do.

[88man]

I've decided, I am ordering the Bricasti M7.

-The company is seems to be headed by individual(s) who are committed to excellence.
-The unit is second to none in terms of quality.
-Customer satisfaction is exemplary.
-Research, update development is ongoing.
-They are a local U.S. company (for me).
-Personal customer service is beyond expectation.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and sharing your experiences.

[jmcarlock]

+1 for Flux/IRCAM Verb. It really gets the job done well.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by 88man

I've decided, I am ordering the Bricasti M7.

-The company is seems to be headed by individual(s) who are committed to excellence.
-The unit is second to none in terms of quality.
-Customer satisfaction is exemplary.
-Research, update development is ongoing.
-They are a local U.S. company (for me).
-Personal customer service is beyond expectation.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and sharing your experiences.

Good move!

The only problem with an M7 is temptation to overuse because it's so invisible.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by 88man

I've decided, I am ordering the Bricasti M7.

-The company is seems to be headed by individual(s) who are committed to excellence.
-The unit is second to none in terms of quality.
-Customer satisfaction is exemplary.
-Research, update development is ongoing.
-They are a local U.S. company (for me).
-Personal customer service is beyond expectation.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and sharing your experiences.

Casey and the team is following a business philosophy that is becoming a rarity these days!

As consumers it is in our best interest to make it clear that this is something we value.
We are willing to pay more for a product that will not lose support in a few years.
It is a product that is well built, and has great support!

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by 88man

[LEFT]What is the best concert hall reverb software for classical music under $3.5k? I am looking for a reverb that treats the initial reflections and tails very smoothly for acoustic sources, like piano, and soak into the music naturally, without any harsh sheen.

For this I´d recommend the Quantec Yardstick. Surprised that nobody mentioned this animal in this thread. I think it is unbeatable if you look for a natural sounding hardware reverb.

[StudioLogic]

How about this? - I send you a Quantec 2496 so you can listen to it and post your results here on Gearslutz. For Classical music the Quantec is something that should be heard.

If this sounds good PM me.

Thanks.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by StudioLogic

How about this? - I send you a Quantec 2496 so you can listen to it and post your results here on Gearslutz. For Classical music the Quantec is something that should be heard.

If this sounds good PM me.

Thanks.

I hope someone takes this offer. This is the forum for it.

[MustacheVerra]

I was blown away by what i heard on the Yardstick website. This is definitely what i will get for classical music as soon as i can afford it! Those demos are drown in reverb and it still sound good. I mean the thing sounds like a reverb God would use in heaven or something! Not That I'm a believer or anything.

Some people have said there's an ensemble in NI's Reaktor that resemble the yard stick, anybody can confirm that? Cause I'd buy it in an instant if that thing really came close to a yardstick. A solution like that ITB would be perfect. It's the 6-REV here:

NATIVE INSTRUMENTS : Support : Downloads : R3 Latest Additions

That would be too good to be true right?

I'd love to hear it!

Other than that i would think an ITB solution like MIR from VSL would be a good choice no? It sure sounds good to me and is as easy to use as can be. Plus you can use it as a stage positioning device and add an M7 or a yardstick on it for the tail.

[roonsbane]

I start with my reverb sends at -10 for the main array and spots at unity and then adjust to taste from there. I agree with Mark that spots always need more, especially if it is a nice room. The venues for the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra's neighborhood concerts are less than stellar and I can't always get a stand exactly where I would like it. In these rooms I often find myself closer than I would like if I were in a great room and then needing to add Altiverb. On the other hand, whether I am using the 480, 960, borrowing my buddies Bricasti or using Altiverb, I always EQ reverb returns so that they compliment the room as much as possible. I have blown folks away time and time again with results from my favorite IR's from altiverb. I tend to spend a great deal of time trying IR's, EQ'ing, tweaking, the reverbs damping, early reflections, and other parameters. I start and stop the recordings over and over and also solo just the verb return. This is my regular routine after returning from an on-location gig and listening in a "real" studio environment. This approximately ten minute process always takes the recording up at least 5% from my headphone mix.

Happy New Year!
Cameron

[StudioLogic]

All Quantec units can be controlled from a web browser but Quantec is working on a plug in that will control the Quantec units and recall all parameters from inside your DAW.

[didier.brest]

If IR is the best way for classical music, then Bricasti IR should a valuable alternative to the Bricasti hardware. Could someone provide samples exhibiting a difference between both ?
My own piano samples, which did not encourage me in investing 3000 € in the true thing.

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Adebar

For this I´d recommend the Quantec Yardstick. Surprised that nobody mentioned this animal in this thread. I think it is unbeatable if you look for a natural sounding hardware reverb.

I demo'd one, but didn't keep it. I thought it sounded pretty nice if you fed it a dry signal, but I found its sound difficult to add to a recording that already had its own hall sound. I don't typically have a lot of spot mics that I can use to create a reverb send as Mark Donahue has described. Often I have only the main pair, and need to augment the existing room tone in an appealing way without making it sound unnatural. Consequently I tend to gravitate to reverbs (inboard or outboard) that have lots of adjustments I can tweek. (I also EQ the send or return.) The Quantec front panel wasn't at all comfortable for that kind of work, and it didn't really change the basic sound in the way I needed to.

If I buy another hardware reverb unit, it will probably be the Bricasti.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[88man]

Does the Flux::Ircam Verb have Hall, Room presets?... Or does one have to customize the room and reverb from scratch.

Is Flux::Ircam Spat overkill to treat the early reflections?...

I can't determine anything from the their website. No manual, no directory of functions, presets, etc.

I am definitely going with Bricasti M7 for HW, but the Flux::Ircam Verb looks more appealing than Altiverb 6 for software application.

Thanks

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by 88man

I can't determine anything from the their website. No manual, no directory of functions, presets, etc.

There is a full-operational trial version.

[88man]

Good idea, Didier. When my new computer arrives, I'll download the trial version and try it on some dry tracks. My current computer is about to expire and it's got to point where it can barely handle the internet.

[jmcarlock]

All of the Flux/IRCAM manuals can be found here.

[LP2006]

Originally Posted by 88man

[LEFT]What is the best concert hall reverb...?

The concert hall.

[88man]

Thanks jmcarlock, I've downloaded the manuals before, but it doesn't list the factory reverb presets. Does it have Concert Hall, Room, Plate, Spaces, etc.?... Or do I have to design my own Hall?

[jmcarlock]

Originally Posted by 88man

Thanks jmcarlock, I've downloaded the manuals before, but it doesn't list the factory reverb presets. Does it have Concert Hall, Room, Plate, Spaces, etc.?... Or do I have to design my own Hall?

It has a few presets including sudios, small, medium, and large spaces. The vocal halls are plate-like. I tend to load up a preset and then modify it to my needs. The default presets are probably meant more as a good starting point than anything else. The "Room size" slider is also good place to start.

I also tend to use it with some reverb from location, so sometimes I will disable everything but the reverb tail to spice up terrible dry rooms. The customizable early reflections are also excellent at simulating a little extra distance.

Jason

[MaTr1x2051]

It's really all about making your reverb mimic the space you already recorded in. I don't know of any units that come pre-loaded with the sounds I need or use... everything requires tweaking, even the most expensive hardware.

That being said, I've made serious recordings with everything from a Lexicon MX300, through Altiverb, and up into M7 ranges. Things run through all of those have at some point gone on to be broadcast. Some may be easier to use than others, but no matter what you choose, it takes time to make any artifical verb sound like the actual space you recorded in.

For what it's worth, most often I'm running through Altiverb, simply because it offers so so many instances for such a relatively low price. I've never liked the sound of Lexicon for classical... its never smooth enough or 'real' enough... takes a lot of work to make it sound natural, IMO.

Also, I did find a thread on here awhile back that compared a real M7 to an IR for an M7... see if you can search for the Bricasti on the forum and come across the clips.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by MaTr1x2051

Also, I did find a thread on here awhile back that compared a real M7 to an IR for an M7... see if you can search for the Bricasti on the forum and come across the clips.

Here.
My own comparison on piano samples and Berlin Hall here.

[srscpa]

Anyone know of an altiverb demo version? There's not one on their site.

[MustacheVerra]

Originally Posted by srscpa

Anyone know of an altiverb demo version? There's not one on their site.

I think you have to email them to get one.

[Sheikyearbouti]

Working in London could be quite a nightmare as in many of the places where I record there usually are way too many external noises. Thus sometimes I am forced to put the mics closer than ideal.

If it is worth the hassle and is a place where I work regularly I will sometimes bring a speaker (maybe at night!!! , or wait for the next london underground train to pass by, etc.) and "steal" the verb of that room as an IR. In this case I can always add a bit of it in the post.

I have done it with two halls so far and most of the time it works fine. Plus you can always do "the crime" in a few different ways for flexibility (different distance, stereo width, cardioids/omnis, etc.).

[jnorman]

bumping this old thread with a new question - can a few of you describe how you tend to EQ your reverb returns for chamber music? do you tend to roll off the low end, like in pop music, or do you tend to roll off the high end to make it warmer? thanks.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by jnorman

bumping this old thread with a new question - can a few of you describe how you tend to EQ your reverb returns for chamber music? do you tend to roll off the low end, like in pop music, or do you tend to roll off the high end to make it warmer? thanks.

Good question. I often roll back the low end of the reverb, to make it
less intrusive. The Bricasti has a great, accurate low end, but I have to
sacrifice it in some spaces.

[Jim Williams]

You have complete control of the low end decay and high end roll-offs inside the M7. Usually I never need anything external. Sometimes the M7 is too thick in the low mids for pop stuff. In those cases I do roll-off some low end (-3db) with analog shelf EQ. Some patches are set thinner in the low end. Once I used the chamber patch on a pop mix, the reverb didn't have that Bricasti thickening effect like rooms and plates have.

Also, don't waste $ on the PCM96 and it's disfunctional digital I/O. Get the PCM92, 1/2 the money, same presets, less BS.

[The Listener]

FLUX/Ircam Verb is one of the answers to the OP and to the bump question - you can even EQ different elements of the reverb separately in that excellent plug-in. Just a tiny bit of low and/or high shelf is usual, cutting elsewhere is more for special FX purposes or I know that the dry sound is not OK or the particular reverb doesn't suit it and I change the algorithm first before starting heavy EQing.

For acoustic/classical I wouldn't look much elsewhere in the software land (and also most HW excluding Bricasti probably, )
Lexicon PCM sounds veiled compared and can shrink the stereo image more - Ircam Verb sounds more "true stereo" to my ears or at least much more natural and transparent when you want that and in classical I guess you mostly want that.
It can be shaped and tweaked into anything and its initial great sound leaves little to EQ outside the plug-in - you can do anything with its settings.