Recent large orchestra & choir gig

[claying]

First time to post a sample here - Rossini's Gloria from Messa di Gloria. Recorded 2 weeks ago in a local concert hall, and was the largest gig I've ever done since becoming a recording enthusiast!

[boojum]

Aaron, quite nice. Can you tell us more about the session?

[claying]

I used 10 mics for this recording:
- Main pair was DPA 4060 A-B 2.5m apart, suspended 4m above stage front
- Just in front of conductor, two AKG C414B-XL II in omni+fig8 MS to fill up the central image and add some details of the strings
- Pair of AKG CK92 A-B flanks for windbrass reinforcement & lower choir stall
- AKG CK93+94 MS for upper choir stall
- Two AT2035 for solo spot

No EQ or reverb added.

[JEGG]

I liked this recording a lot!!

I almost immediately started listening to the piece as opposed to the "recording," which is always a very good sign!

A very full blooded, full bodied sound.

If I had a slight quibble (and would be very slight), the presentation of the soloists didn't sound quite as natural as the rest, but this is a very small point.

And, at first listening, at least, it would be nice if the choir were a little more prominent-they are covered a little by the orchestra.

The recording could take some reverb, but I like it without! Thanks for not adding it! It's a more immediate and personal sort of experience.

Good job.

On a side note entirely-I recently heard a re-orchestration of the Berlioz Requiem. Much of it ended up being reminiscent Rossini! It was sung by a relatively small and very tight choir 35-45, with reduced instrumental forces, and I loved hearing it in a small, tight, energetic setting, without the cast of thousands and a huge acoustical space. It reminds me very much of your recording.

This was a fun recording to hear.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by claying

I used 10 mics for this recording:
- Main pair was DPA 4060 A-B 2.5m apart, suspended 4m above stage front
- Just in front of conductor, two AKG C414B-XL II in omni+fig8 MS to fill up the central image and add some details of the strings
- Pair of AKG CK92 A-B flanks for windbrass reinforcement & lower choir stall
- AKG CK93+94 MS for upper choir stall
- Two AT2035 for solo spot

No EQ or reverb added.

How do you like the AKG CK94?

[rumleymusic]

Nice job, I hope you take my post as helpful. My first reaction was "high school auditorium." It has that somewhat dry, woolly sound you get from an overly damped environment. I'm sure reverb would help, but I think alot of it has to do with the placement of the main pair.

At 2.5 meters apart at 4 meters high, the 4060's become more room mics than mains. I'm glad you used the AKG to fill it in, but I think you might have gotten a favorable sound by moving the DPA's in and spacing them as an AB pair (no more than 3 feet). Then you could have use the AKG's as flanks or extra spots. I thought the tympani needed an extra spot in particular.

Other than that. I liked the balance of the choir and soloists.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

It has that somewhat dry, woolly sound you get from an overly damped environment. I'm sure reverb would help, but I think alot of it has to do with the placement of the main pair.

I agree with this "take" on things, but I find it refreshingly different, retro in a quirky way, and sort of how a musician on stage hears things.

I'm sure my opinion is a minority one, but I like this presentation. (It could have used at least one 57 somewhere!)

A little odd, as I'm generally more of a "you are there" than a "they are here" person.

Rossini is more Gilbert and Sullivan than Louis XIV or Mahler, don't you think?

[claying]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

How do you like the AKG CK94?

I grab this because I built up my mic collection with AKG blue line. I think it is one of the very few fig 8 SDC at this price level. I use it often as MS with CK92/CK93 or as blumlein pair with good results (at least to my ears!).

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by claying

I think it is one of the very few fig 8 SDC at this price level.

That's precisely what I have in mind. Actually I think it's the only "real" fig-8 SDC at this price point, for you can't really call the Oktava double capsule thingy a fig-8.
Sorry for hijacking, btw. Back to topic...?

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

or you can't really call the Oktava double capsule thingy a fig-8.
Sorry for hijacking, btw. Back to topic...?

Agreed, and the very least of the problems would be the distance between the capsules.

Glad to hear about the Blue Line 8 and other Blue Line mic's. They really dropped out of popularity quite a few years ago (or maybe they just weren't picked up and used when the line was introduced), and now really seem to be making a comeback or are finally being used. I always get a little concerned when I look at the polar patterns for the directionals (not so much the 8) because the off axis response is really all over the place. But they seem to be working well for people, and I'm not hearing any complaints.

That said, when I got around to getting an MKH30, that mic was (and still is) a complete revelation to me-and that after other MKH mic's. Clarity, clarity, and more clarity.

[claying]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Nice job, I hope you take my post as helpful. My first reaction was "high school auditorium." It has that somewhat dry, woolly sound you get from an overly damped environment. I'm sure reverb would help, but I think alot of it has to do with the placement of the main pair.

At 2.5 meters apart at 4 meters high, the 4060's become more room mics than mains. I'm glad you used the AKG to fill it in, but I think you might have gotten a favorable sound by moving the DPA's in and spacing them as an AB pair (no more than 3 feet). Then you could have use the AKG's as flanks or extra spots. I thought the tympani needed an extra spot in particular.

Other than that. I liked the balance of the choir and soloists.

The halls here in Hong Kong are mostly very dry, which I can do nothing about it unfortunately.

My DPA is rather wide than a normal A-B should be as you mentioned, but if I move in the DPA and place them close together, wouldn't this make the sound even more dry (direct sound > reflected sound)?

By the way, I always find the sound of a single A-B pair hardly satisfactory. It's hard to decide how wide it should be - definitely not as straightforward as what described on DPA's online guide. Therefore, I tend to modify my doing to become something like this - widely spaced far omnis plus a close omni-M/S. Moreover, I could hardly get the right balance at the scene (even with closed back headphone at backstage is not accurate at all!), so this setting allows me to manipulate the balance between far vs. near & stereo image by adjusting levels of the two pairs.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by claying

The halls here in Hong Kong are mostly very dry, which I can do nothing about it unfortunately.

For me, a relatively dry and not very big room is pleasing and appropriate for Rossini's music. If one considers Rossini's life and professional trajectory, acoustics which we today associate with large concert and performance "halls"-even very large "rooms"- seem antithetical to his and his audiences' circumstances and ethos.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by claying

My DPA is rather wide than a normal A-B should be as you mentioned, but if I move in the DPA and place them close together, wouldn't this make the sound even more dry (direct sound > reflected sound)?

It would make the sound from the omni's less de-correlated.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by claying

The halls here in Hong Kong are mostly very dry, which I can do nothing about it unfortunately.

My DPA is rather wide than a normal A-B should be as you mentioned, but if I move in the DPA and place them close together, wouldn't this make the sound even more dry (direct sound > reflected sound)?

By the way, I always find the sound of a single A-B pair hardly satisfactory. It's hard to decide how wide it should be - definitely not as straightforward as what described on DPA's online guide. Therefore, I tend to modify my doing to become something like this - widely spaced far omnis plus a close omni-M/S. Moreover, I could hardly get the right balance at the scene (even with closed back headphone at backstage is not accurate at all!), so this setting allows me to manipulate the balance between far vs. near & stereo image by adjusting levels of the two pairs.

Aaron, Eargle's books on recording are excellent on mic placement. He likes an ORTF center with flanking omnis. The flanks usually are about half the distance between the center and the edge. They add the room sound. M/S works this way, too. Bartlett's "Recording on Location" is quite helpful, also. I run M/S and ORTF with DPA 4061's alongside with 40cm between them. This is the Williams recommended distance for AB and widest (180 degree) soundstage. It works pretty well and is very good for a quick and dirty setup that is not much of an eyesore. I think you will have to play around to find the best setup. But you sure showed us a good one with your recording.

Merry Christmas and Yam Sing!