recording vivaldi gloria tomorrow

[king2070lplaya]

Howdy all,

Tomorrow I'm going to be recording a live concert with chamber orchestra and choir of Xmas anthems, and finished off with Vivaldi's "Gloria". I'm very excited about it, it's going to be a great concert in which i'm also playing pic trumpet, and I've finally met an oboist who I can balance my part with. I'm a happy camper.

The room is very live, in a great way, and it makes a mediocre choir augmented with ringers sound INCREDIBLE. I've planned the whole recording setup out, and this is what it's going to look like:

Main pair: omni Mojave Audio 100's (preferably) or subcard Line Audio CM3's in a spaced pair/wide near-coincident pair (depending on which ones I use), close behind the conductor about 10-12ft up

backwards facing pair (for reverb/audience/pipe organ in back of the room): M/S with beyerdynamic ribbons mounted on same bar as the first pair

Kids choir spot mics: card AKG 460's (preferably) or Mojave Audio 100's in ORTF or X/Y

soloist spot mics: preferably the line audio's, but might have to be the AKG's, 1 on either side of the conductor


My question(s) is/are as follows:

I would love to use the Mojave's for the main pair, as I love the omni capsules sound on that mic. BUT I fear that it will pick up too much reverb/audience noise.

Have you folks, in doing live recordings, found that using omnis for the main pair might result in these problems?

Ive been thinking that, just to be safe I aught to use the subcardioid mics for the main pickup, but if I could keep the Mojave's up there in omni would create the best possible scenario for getting the most out of all the other mics, and would keep me from having to use the cardioid capsules on the mojave's which I kind of dread for this kind of recording (HYPED!)

So yeah, what do you guys think about using omnis as the main pair in a nice, very live acoustic, for a live concert in wintertime?



PS This concert is taking place in Parma, OH so feel free to insert any jokes you may have as well.

[MichaelPatrick]

Some thoughts about omnis in a live acoustic:

Can you place them where there's a good balance between sections such as choir, orchestra, and featured performers and soloists. For example, it's OK if soloists need a spot mic, but it's not OK if a soloist overwhelms the main mics compared with the other sections. Also, is the distance relatively balanced in relation to critical distance -- i.e. how much hall reverb for the orchestra and how much for choir? You don't want the orchestra too dry even if the choir is just right.

Directional mics can give you control of the ratios between sections, and with room mics you can mix in the hall to taste. This is the safer route but it shifts the burden of blending into post production.

I think using omnis is an skill that develops over time because you need to learn both the room and your tools too. I'm still working 4 years now to improve my omni techniques in just one room. That said, it's worth it because a few well placed mics in a nice room are a thing of beauty.

[king2070lplaya]

The group is setup at the front of the church, orchestra on floor and choir on the steps up to the altar, soloists will be halfway between the center and edge of the orchestra; orchestra is 4 violins to the left and 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 cb, oboe, pic tpt, continuo organ to the right. Each side 2 members deep and 2-3 rows from center to side with the choir DIRECTLY behind, no room for choir spot.

There is really only 1 practical place to put the stand, conveniently about 6-10 feet behind the conductor, and from there I probably have about 5 ft I can move the pair forwards and backwards, so I have enough flexibility to hopefully find that nice blend (and with any luck enough time in soundcheck!)

I am mostly worried about coughs and the sound being too live, but I should probably concentrate some attention on the balance as you said.

Thanks for the tips, any more would be welcome. Happy holidays all!

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

The group is setup at the front of the church, orchestra on floor and choir on the steps up to the altar, soloists will be halfway between the center and edge of the orchestra; orchestra is 4 violins to the left and 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 cb, oboe, pic tpt, continuo organ to the right. Each side 2 members deep and 2-3 rows from center to side with the choir DIRECTLY behind, no room for choir spot.

There is really only 1 practical place to put the stand, conveniently about 6-10 feet behind the conductor, and from there I probably have about 5 ft I can move the pair forwards and backwards, so I have enough flexibility to hopefully find that nice blend (and with any luck enough time in soundcheck!)

I am mostly worried about coughs and the sound being too live, but I should probably concentrate some attention on the balance as you said.

Thanks for the tips, any more would be welcome. Happy holidays all!

If the choir is sufficiently powerful omnis might work well with that staging but the ceiling should be high since you don't want the orchestra overtaking the choir. I think spots for soloists are probably needed.

[king2070lplaya]

Here's the first movement of the Vivaldi piece. Ended up using the Mojave omnis in AB, 11 feet up, about 7 feet from the front of the ensemble spaced a little bit more than 2 ft apart as the main pair.

I was suprised how direct the sound was, even with omnis. I almost wish I would've put the mains back a little bit, but I think it worked really well all things considered.

I used just a little EQ at 110 and 220 because the A was REALLY speaking loud from the contrabass in the room, and needed balanced a bit. Then out through my mixer, through my 747 with only the tube button pushed in (thought the ensemble sounded better with some tube smoothing, they aren't the tightest if you can't tell) and back in to protools to track. Pretty simple!

[tenor39]

Outstanding for a two mic recording!thumbsup Nicely done!!

Re-read the OP. Did you use multiple mic's for this? Still sounds great!

[boojum]

Beautiful room, beautiful group, beautiful recording. It may be me but I would like the omnis a bit closer. It seems there is a lessening in the middle. But only slightly. It is an excellent recording. In two words: well done!

[king2070lplaya]

I ended up using:

the main pair of omnis

a wide XY at mouth height in front of the kids choir (dead center and on the floor in the choir)

and 2 soloist mics flanking the ensemble, which here I have panned hard L-R.

6 mics total

The mix is 95 percent omnis with a bit of the XY to bring the kids out a bit in the choir mix (my friend, the conductor who I recorded the concert for loves Simon Preston's men and boys choir recordings, so I thought i'd try to bring some of that sound out for him) and the soloist mics up just enough that it's slightly noticeable when you mute them. I was playing and found they [soloist mics] helped to add clarity to some orchestral parts, and added some width due to their symmetrical placement wide on either side of the ensemble. I liked the way it sounded so I left them in.

[king2070lplaya]

Have a Merry Christmas everyone!