DR680 "write timeout" error massage

[sonare]

Last night I saw this error msg for the first time. I was recording 4 channels (plus the default stereo 2mix) at 24/44.1. I usually record on a freshly re-formatted card (16GB) but this time I did not. There was already a 2 hr 2ch concert on the card but the message popped up less than halfway. In the past when the 2GB threshold is crossed there is no drama but that may not have been the case as the file size was 202,678KB at the time this happened. I have not had time to import the files into the DAW yet but at the least the piece they were in the middle of (ironically SILENT Night) was lost.

Has anyone else seen this message? I called TASCAM and they confirmed my card was approved.

Rich

[busman]

I have had this happen on an approved card. The card seemed to be the problem. I tested and retested on multiple cards and could only get it to happen on the one multiple times.
I went through every scenario of formatting to see if I could get the card to work but it intermittently had this problem no matter what I did.

I just don't use that card anymore and have never had the problem since.

This was on a Transcend 16GB approved card.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by busman

This was on a Transcend 16GB approved card.

Same here. I am going to reformat and test-- if it flunks then out it goes! Of course then I get to wonder when the NEXT 16GB Transcend will hiccup. Guess solid state media is not the panacea I had hoped.

Rich

[JEGG]

Just checking:

You didn't happen to have a miss-set clock on the device, and the recording period did not straddle an "official" day (one 24 hr period to another), by any chance?

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by sonare

Same here. I am going to reformat and test-- if it flunks then out it goes! Of course then I get to wonder when the NEXT 16GB Transcend will hiccup. Guess solid state media is not the panacea I had hoped.

Rich

Solid state media does seem to vary quite a bit, in terms of reliability. I tend to stay with SanDisk.

Does the DR-680 have a card test function like the HD-P2? T he results would be considerably more complex than for a 2 channel device, so perhaps it works differently, if there is one at all.

I'm both glad and sad I read this thread, as I was on the verge of ordering one of these.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Just checking:

You didn't happen to have a miss-set clock on the device, and the recording period did not straddle an "official" day (one 24 hr period to another), by any chance?

No-- I was recording the same group (but in a different venue) at the same time as I had 3 days prior. You bring up a good point, though. I will double check that.

The real issue seems to be the media and not the machine. Perhaps we should start a poll whereby folks who have this problem can post the manufacturer and size/class of the card. I have a suspicion that standard deviation will reveal that each manufacturer makes cards that eventually develop problems. I will report back on how the re-format and test recording goes.

It did not happen often but "back in the day" it was possible to encounter a bad reel of tape, and the idea of running a backup was not generally done. Let's not forget that hard drives fail but most of us simply chuck it and keep going.

Murphy will not retire soon.

Rich

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by sonare

Murphy will not retire soon.

Rich

Unfortunately that is the case.

However, take this for what it's worth. I have a few HD-P2's and one DR-100 (actually, that's on loan-it just feels like it's mine).

On two occasions (only), over many, many hours on the HD-P2's over years, there were two incidents of one device just "freezing" up, requiring removing the batteries-it could not even be shut down. These incidents were a couple of weeks apart. They've never recurred. And these things are really heavily used. Go figure. The HD-P2 has very good file management, so you can't loose more than a few seconds if there's such an event. I was lucky-I lost no material as the device picked the perfect time to malfunction.

BTW, I would encourage your to check the time recorded (your file's meta data) when your device malfunctioned, to make sure you didn't cross a 24 hour cycle division. It is one thing to rule out, and in the past, at least, certain Tascam units would stop if that happened.

Anyway-does the DR-680 have a card test feature?

[MichaelPatrick]

What class is the card?

Writing to media is usually the biggest bottleneck in recorders of this type. I only use Class 10 media to reduce risks.

Secure Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[sonare]

The most irritating thing is that if the unit WERE new I would understand more (in a weird way). Funny how the 680 seems to be more trustworthy after a hundred uses whereas the media becomes more suspicious.

This incident DOES present a certain dilemma, and I am wondering whether I should figure out how to do a backup (while using the USBPre2) or simply choke to death on raw crow!

Rich

[Corran]

My experiences with Transcend SD cards have not been positive, nor have many other owners'. Especially considering busman's similar issue, I'd say "approved" might not mean "100% reliable."

My non-scientific experiences (i.e. not tests) have led me to avoid Transcend, Kingston, and PNY cards.

Legit SanDisk and Lexar cards seem to be the best...read some reviews on NewEgg or other sites to see if a certain card seems to have higher failure rates.

Oh and I've heard counterfeit SanDisk cards are all over ebay, best to buy from an authorized dealer, with the inherent cost, unfortunately.

[RobAnderson]

This incident DOES present a certain dilemma, and I am wondering whether I should figure out how to do a backup (while using the USBPre2) or simply choke to death on raw crow!

This sounds like a media issue to me, but I still would not trust any single recorder to get the job done each and every time for hundreds of gigs. FWIW, I have not yet had a problem with SanDisk media, and these are the only brand I buy at the moment. I almost always start my gig with a clean reformat of the media card as well. If there is something I need to save, it is either backed up before the gig, or I use a different media card.

I haven't been doing this for as long as many here, but at some point or another, I have had something go wrong with literally every device in the chain: mic's, cables, preamps, converters, and not least recorders.

I know this is a joke Steve likes to use, but in my case it's true: I am so paranoid, that I sometimes have a backup for my backup!

Even having a simple 2-TR backup recorder getting nothing but a split signal of the main pair is better than no backup at all - even doing this simple step has saved my arse (and reputation) a few times. Even a lowly Microtrack - it only has to be working for the few seconds that your main machine takes a dump.

For me, the 680 is the backup. For these kinds of gigs, I use preamps with mixers - the mix goes to the stereo machines, the direct outs go to the 680. I intend to deliver whatever is on my 2-Track machine, but if I don't get a sound check, or I don't get the mix right, or if the 2-track recorders or the converters go down, I have an analog multi-track backup. If the analog multi-track backup goes down, I will still have my 2-mix, which is all I'll guarantee to deliver for this kind of money.

Here is an example:

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by Corran

My experiences with Transcend SD cards have not been positive, nor have many other owners'. Especially considering busman's similar issue, I'd say "approved" might not mean "100% reliable."

+1

Originally Posted by Corran

My non-scientific experiences (i.e. not tests) have led me to avoid Transcend, Kingston, and PNY cards.

A quick look around shows this is a widely held opinion and/or experience. Especially PNY.

Originally Posted by Corran

Legit SanDisk and Lexar cards seem to be the best...read some reviews on NewEgg or other sites to see if a certain card seems to have higher failure rates.

Yep, SanDisk and Lexar. Way above the crowd.

Originally Posted by Corran

Oh and I've heard counterfeit SanDisk cards are all over ebay, best to buy from an authorized dealer, with the inherent cost, unfortunately.

Just have to watch for the sales, and then grab them when you can at local retail stores-that's what I do. I'm sure anyone's favorite volume dealer would be fine also.

[Corran]

Yes, and Black Friday is the absolute best day for media purchases. Best Buy had 8GB SanDisk Extreme III cards for sale for $15 this year.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by sonare

No-- I was recording the same group (but in a different venue) at the same time as I had 3 days prior.

You may have misunderstood. What I was asking is whether the machine was actually recording a file when one calendar day (determined by the machine's clock) flipped over in to a new day.

This has nothing to do with actual time of day you were making a recording, only the way the clock is set on the machine for meta data, and you were in the middle of writing a file at precisely this time.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by JEGG

You may have misunderstood. What I was asking is whether the machine was actually recording a file when one calendar day (determined by the machine's clock) flipped over in to a new day.

This has nothing to do with actual time of day you were making a recording, only the way the clock is set on the machine for meta data, and you were in the middle of writing a file at precisely this time.

Actually I did understand. The machine was at about 2030. I have done further testing and it is definitely the card. There are one or more bad sectors and the TASCAM formatting utility does not map them. I did a 20 hour erase (!) using a SanDisk utility then formatted it with the 680 with same error msg results. This particular has received the most use of the 3 Transcendence cards. Time to roll these over and replace with genuine SanDisk.

Rich

[JEGG]

I'm afraid so. But then you'll have a more reliable recorder, we hope.

Post again when you start using another card and let us know what happens. I'm certain this will be of interest to many.

[busman]

I have run this recorder since it came out for a lot of hours and it is not the machine. The card is the problem and this is something that will happen.

This media is not perfect and there can be random card issues every once in a while. This is not a reason to not buy this machine IMO.

I have since the problem run another transcend card that was bought at the same time as the bad one and never have had a problem. I also have 2 Sandisk 8GB cards that have never had a problem.
The transcend is on the approved list as working for the recorder and it does, random bad cards will happen and I try not to let it worry me.

This machine is very stable and works great for 6-8 channel recording as the main deck just run a back up 2 track if you are worried. If you have a write timeout the signal will still send to the 2 track recorder just don't try to stop the recording on the tascam.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by JEGG

I'm afraid so. But then you'll have a more reliable recorder, we hope.

Post again when you start using another card and let us know what happens. I'm certain this will be of interest to many.

I am in the camp that says the problem is not the 680. What would be useful is a poll to see which brand cards have the fewest glitches-- and if size matters (I use 16GB).

Does anyone know of a utility that will map bad sectors and prevent the card from trying to write to them?

Rich

[Remoteness]

Great idea Rich.
A poll would indeed be seriously helpful!

[sonare]

The http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remot...card-poll.html is done-- now everyone needs to vote!


Rich