Livesound acoustic guitar

roon · 18th January 2006

I´m doing some gigs with a new band. They have some awesome 6 and 12 string martin guitars but don´t know how to get the good sound from them live without mics. When just plugging them line in from the pick up system, they sound like cheaper guitars. Is a good linedriver the way to go or is micing the only way to obtain that natural big sound they have unplugged ?

roon

aussie_techie · 19th January 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by roon

When just plugging them line in from the pick up system, they sound like cheaper guitars. Is a good linedriver the way to go or is micing the only way to obtain that natural big sound they have unplugged ?

i dont know how you got an un-balanced signal to the desk desk buut anyway i would look at a good ACTIVE DI, this is one of the few aplications where i would always go for an active rather than a passive DI. short of spending a fortune ive found the *gasp* behringer DI-800 is great for what it is, the mains powered unit has a much better responce than their crappy phantom powered units. if you have a bit of money you can look at the Sans-Amp line driver/DI i forget the exact model now.
ALWAYS lift the ground on your DI and get some of those plastic things that sit in the sound hole.

tINY · 19th January 2006

Good condenser mics at moderate distances are best for catching the sound of an acoustic guitar. This is usually totally unworkable on stage.

If stage volume is pretty low, a good cardioid or hypercardioid mic at closer distances about halfway from the top of the soundhole to the bouts can work (resist the temptation to use an LDC here, it will give you trouble).

If there is a good piezo element under the bridge, tone shaping circuits can help a lot. If you have a full parametric band or two at FOH (or the right EQ) you can get what you need there. I have had good luck using LR Baggs Para-coustic DI, a 5 band parametric EQ, and the EQ in the Vienna-style Soundcraft channels at different times.

The trick is to roll off the bottom (usually around 150 Hz), taking a notch out at around 300-350 Hz, and sculping the high frequnecy with another boost somewhere around 1.5-4KHz and/or a high-shelf filter.

-tINY

A LaMere · 19th January 2006

Depends on how loud you are trying to get them....

I gig quite often with a Martin acoustic guitar and if I'm playing alone I always mic it up.... but with the band, that's just absolutely out of the question. The best bet is always a good d.i. when trying to get the guitar loud. The Jensen equipped radial di is one of the best di's I've ever heard for live stuff.... a lot of d.i.'s will work properly for this though... and really, you have to try a few to figure out which ones you think sound the best.

Truth is, most people end up buying a di based on thier budget... and it does make a little bit of sense because sometimes you need four of them...

If I'm alone... I DO mic live with a large diaghram condenser... and of course, the tone is unbelievable... You do have to roll off a bit of low-end.. but this will probably depend on the mic.

In all honest, the di... isn't really that close to THAT tone...
But it does enable the guitar to get up to volume with the other instruments.

good luck! -Aaron

A LaMere · 19th January 2006

ps: The pickup that the acoustic guitars have inside of them matters A LOT too...

I have one of those K and K "trinity" systems inside of my guitar... which also has a small lavalier type mic that cranes around to the soundhole... as well as the undersaddle portion of the pickup.

If the band is loud enough to actually require that they use those feedback buster things (my band is) than you pretty much have to forget great acoustic tone and just work with what your being given and do the best that you can to improve it...

roon · 19th January 2006

Cool. Thanks guys, thats just about what I was thinking, but I´m an acoustic classical/jazz pianoman myself, so I don´t really know about guitars and rockmusic. The guys are a loudrockin´really nice Neil Young tribute band, ready to do a full acoustic set aswell but still noobs with soundengineering.

again thumbsup

feyshay · 22nd January 2006

Compare the sound that you're getting with guitars with just the pickup versus those with the pickup and the microphone inside, allowing you to blend the two signals. That will sound much better and you won't get too much bleed from the other instruments. It provides for a fuller sound at the risk of feedback.

I've tried condenser and dynamic microphones. The dynamic microphones have to be positioned very closely and directing them toward the bottom of the guitar picks up more bass but they still sound a bit thing. Microphoning makes playing very difficult live, so it will partly depend on how comfortable the guitarist is with being pretty still. My dynamic really doesn't sound that bad, although a little thin compared to the condenser. They will pick up much less of the surrounding instruments and have less of a chance of feedback. The condensers sound great, especially with two of them.
The DI recommendation (I'd consider checking out the Brick or the Radial JDI) is a good one as are the importance of equalization.

Sean Holland · 27th January 2006

Then there's this kind of thing:

http://www.fishmanaura.com/

18th January 2006	#1
roon Gear Head Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 54 Thread Starter	Livesound acoustic guitar I´m doing some gigs with a new band. They have some awesome 6 and 12 string martin guitars but don´t know how to get the good sound from them live without mics. When just plugging them line in from the pick up system, they sound like cheaper guitars. Is a good linedriver the way to go or is micing the only way to obtain that natural big sound they have unplugged ? roon

19th January 2006	#4
A LaMere Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,146	Depends on how loud you are trying to get them.... I gig quite often with a Martin acoustic guitar and if I'm playing alone I always mic it up.... but with the band, that's just absolutely out of the question. The best bet is always a good d.i. when trying to get the guitar loud. The Jensen equipped radial di is one of the best di's I've ever heard for live stuff.... a lot of d.i.'s will work properly for this though... and really, you have to try a few to figure out which ones you think sound the best. Truth is, most people end up buying a di based on thier budget... and it does make a little bit of sense because sometimes you need four of them... If I'm alone... I DO mic live with a large diaghram condenser... and of course, the tone is unbelievable... You do have to roll off a bit of low-end.. but this will probably depend on the mic. In all honest, the di... isn't really that close to THAT tone... But it does enable the guitar to get up to volume with the other instruments. good luck! -Aaron __________________ www.myspace.com/aaronlamere

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19th January 2006	#3
tINY Gear Guru Joined: Jul 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 10,234	Good condenser mics at moderate distances are best for catching the sound of an acoustic guitar. This is usually totally unworkable on stage. If stage volume is pretty low, a good cardioid or hypercardioid mic at closer distances about halfway from the top of the soundhole to the bouts can work (resist the temptation to use an LDC here, it will give you trouble). If there is a good piezo element under the bridge, tone shaping circuits can help a lot. If you have a full parametric band or two at FOH (or the right EQ) you can get what you need there. I have had good luck using LR Baggs Para-coustic DI, a 5 band parametric EQ, and the EQ in the Vienna-style Soundcraft channels at different times. The trick is to roll off the bottom (usually around 150 Hz), taking a notch out at around 300-350 Hz, and sculping the high frequnecy with another boost somewhere around 1.5-4KHz and/or a high-shelf filter. -tINY

22nd January 2006	#7
feyshay Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,358	Compare the sound that you're getting with guitars with just the pickup versus those with the pickup and the microphone inside, allowing you to blend the two signals. That will sound much better and you won't get too much bleed from the other instruments. It provides for a fuller sound at the risk of feedback. I've tried condenser and dynamic microphones. The dynamic microphones have to be positioned very closely and directing them toward the bottom of the guitar picks up more bass but they still sound a bit thing. Microphoning makes playing very difficult live, so it will partly depend on how comfortable the guitarist is with being pretty still. My dynamic really doesn't sound that bad, although a little thin compared to the condenser. They will pick up much less of the surrounding instruments and have less of a chance of feedback. The condensers sound great, especially with two of them. The DI recommendation (I'd consider checking out the Brick or the Radial JDI) is a good one as are the importance of equalization.

27th January 2006	#8
Sean Holland Gear Head Joined: Oct 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 61	Then there's this kind of thing: http://www.fishmanaura.com/