DPA 4006 vs Schoeps MK2 - samples

[ISedlacek]

Here is a small practical contribution to the eternal Schoeps vs DPA discussion.
Few days ago I welcomed a bunch of valuable small visitors in my studio (mics worth $25000 ).



We spent the whole afternoon with them. FINALLY I could hear how the Schoeps (I have MK4V, MK21, MK2) and DPA (4006,3532, 4061) really sound side by side.

I can share few small bits from this small totally "unscientific" shootout (the whole session has almost 2GB). Maybe even these small examples will show the basic "sound mood" of each mic (the playing is just kind of rough, rushing between reconnecting the mics ... with some disturbing sounds around ... don´t worry ...)
Apart from 4006 we also tested DPA 3532 and also U87 vs Beyer 834 vs Behringer C1 vs DPA 4041

Chain: Millennia HV-3 - Lavry Blue
Recorded in 96/32 converted to 44/16 with Voxengo r8Brain Pro

recorder MK2
recorder 4006
recorder Behringer B-5

bamboo flute MK2
bamboo flute 4006

monochord 1st position MK2
monochord 1st position 4006

monochord 2nd position MK2
monochord 2nd position 4006
monochord 2nd position 4061

[Bravin Neff]

That's excellent. Thanks for the post!

[ABBA]

WOW!

Brilliant initiative. thumbsup

Please ISedlacek - give us more...

Very interesting indeed!
Thanks alot.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by ABBA

WOW!

Brilliant initiative. thumbsup

Please ISedlacek - give us more...

Very interesting indeed!
Thanks alot.

I will try to post something more.
Recording some ensemble or choir could be also very interesting, but this is already up to someone else. I was able to record just few solo instruments

I would be interested to hear your impressions ... What kind of sound quality difference do you hear between these two mics ?
(I have my own impression, of course, and may share it later ...)

[ISedlacek]

Here are three more samples: few tones on violin (although the mics position was not ideal for violin, but I kept the mics in a constant position), chimes and a small drum

violin MK2
violin 4006

chimes MK2
chimes 4006

drum MK2
drum 4006 ("nose cone")

[Schaap]

Hi Ivo,

After hearing the violin, chimes and drums samples I found the Schoeps have a pleasant, smoothing sound and the 4006 gives a more detailed, real-life feeling, just as if you have your ears close to the instruments. Very nice.

Thanks for doing this.

Henk

[ghellquist]

Hi Ivo,
and great thank you for posting this. Great comparison.

Funny that you use the same "test song" on the recorder as I use. Always believed it to be an old folk song from around here (Sweden), never really thought about though as it got stuck in my ears ages ago. Really revealing of the mics if you play it on a sopranino (smaller recorder, in F) from octave played C (some "false" grips need for the top tones).

Anyway, I really like both mics. I wish you had tested the 4006TL though, the new transformless version of the 4006. I find the 130V version 4003 to be in a class of its own, and wanted to hear how close the TL came.

Of the recordings the 4006 is my favourite, like drinking crystal clear water from a spring in the high mountains. Clear, clear and a bit on the cold side. The Mk2-s are still clear water, but more temperate.

Gunnar

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

Funny that you use the same "test song" on the recorder as I use. Always believed it to be an old folk song from around here (Sweden), never really thought about though as it got stuck in my ears ages ago.

Hi Gunnar,

It is Bach - some orchestral suite with trompet, I believe :-)

[klaukholm]

I believe it is the trumpets melody from:
Prelude Aus Dem Te Deum by the french baroque composer,
Marc Antoine Charpentier

Kjetil

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I believe it is the trumpets melody from:
Prelude Aus Dem Te Deum by the french baroque composer,
Marc Antoine Charpentier

Kjetil

It may be so ... This piece used to be played with the "Eurovision" logo on TV many years ago

[Lek]

both sound great
I wonder...I don't hear too much about these mics on this board. Are they primarily used in orchestral settings?
Has anyone used either of these as drum overheads? How about acoustic guitars?

[ghellquist]

Yes,
they are two of the top omni-s used for orchestral recordings. As such they are generally used on a bit of a distance and as part of a stereo or three-microphone pair.

They are both true pressure omnis, that is one diaphragm above a sealed cavity. As omnis they have no proximity effect, no increased bass on close range (sorry if you already know this). On the other hand the bass stays even on a distance.

The DPA 4006-s are definitely good as overheads (I´ve used them there).

DPA has a lot of interesting info on their homepage:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

Gunnar

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by Lek

both sound great
I wonder...I don't hear too much about these mics on this board. Are they primarily used in orchestral settings?
Has anyone used either of these as drum overheads? How about acoustic guitars?

The DPA 4006,4003, Schoeps CMC6/MK2s, MK2H (not the MK2) are probably the most widely used omnidirectional microphones for classical recording nowadays.

The MK2 and the 4003/4006 with a closemicing grid all sound great on detailed instruments such as guitar and overheads on drums.

Kjetil

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

The DPA 4006,4003, Schoeps CMC6/MK2s, MK2H (not the MK2) are probably the most widely used omnidirectional microphones for classical recording nowadays.

I got MK2H in the beginning, but felt somehow uneasy about the shrill, HF boosted sound. I changed it for MK2 and it sounds beautifully neutral and natural, yet very lively and open.

[ABBA]

Gunnar Hellquist - you've got mail.

Thank you very much ISedlacek! thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

If only music magazines could provide us all with audioexamples such as yours.

I'll burn your tracs and listen in professional speakers and get back to you with my opinion.

Hmm, lots of bloody foreigners here I must say.
Aren't Danish and German mics interesting enough for you americans?
China is not a part of Europe you know...

(only kidding)

[jaba]

Thank you for the post. This is very important to me because right now I'm trying to choose between one of these very mics you've tried out! (I'm also considering the less expensive DPA 4090 which is reputed to sound just as good as the 4006, with just a touch more noise).

I found the mk2 to be the most 'human' sounding. I really liked the 4006, but it sounds like it needs a touch of tempering to warm it up a hair. I think by the time you'd adjust the 4006 (to my taste that is), you'd end up sounding like what the mk2 sounds like more of the analog-type sound which I prefer to the 'digital' sound in general.

I particularly prefer the mk2 on the higher frequency notes....the 4006 sounds just a touch bright. I can easily see preference for either of these mics. I overall like the mk2 the best.

[klaukholm]

Am I correct in assuming that you were using the DD0251 grid on the DPA?
That is the grid that is on the 4006 when you buy it.
To compare it with the MK2 I think it would be prudent to use the closemicing grid that you have to purchase separately (or record without a grid at all which gives roughly the same effect).

The DD0254 grid is the equivalent of MK2
DD0251 is the equivalent of MK2H
DD0297 is the equivalent of MK2S

kjetil

[Don S]

Thanks! Great comparison. I have owned schoeps for about 3 years now, and always asumed the DPAs were more desirable since they are more expensive and used on high profile recording projects. I'm happy to admit that ears like the MK2! I've been using a grace preamp, and not getting the same even balance as the test. Good to know as I just purchased a 4 channel millennia! Also I have the 2H. Again I like the 2 a little better.
Thanks Ivo!

[ISedlacek]

I was also pondering quite few times whether DPAs are not more desirable and somehow of higher sound quality than Schoeps. I am quite happy that I had this direct opportunity which is above reading any amount of discussions and opinions.

Since we played with several DPAs (4006 with various grids, 3532, 4061, 4041) and several Schoeps (MK2, MK21, MK4V) the whole afternoon on quite a few instruments (the above samples are just few among many), for sure I got some overall impression. I did not have an opportunity to try them on some larger source - ensemble etc. - but since my music is mostly solo instrumental, the test range was sufficient for me

Both Schoeps and DPA seem to keep their consistent sound character, even when changing the capsules or microphone types.

I would say that DPAs are slightly more "hyperrealistic" (but in tiny bit cold, dryish way so to say), while Schoeps tend to sound slightly more "euphonic" and pleasant on whatever source or I could even say more "emotional" , but still keeping the natural sound.
As for music is concerned, I definitely prefer the latter category.

To share my personal conclusion, I am very happy I have Schoeps and any desire (however small it was) for DPAs was completely cured ... I would even dare to say that if I already owned DPA, after this comparison I would probably tend to change them for Schoeps .
Both mics are great, of course, this is just my personal subjective impression.
Now all my doubts are cleared and I can hapilly continue creating new music ...

BTW: it is quite interesting that quite many people sent me an email or PM with their impressions rather than posting it to this thread ...

[mr.gefell]

the hi-end clearness and detail of the DPA's is quite attractive..
thanks for the comparisons.


Any comments on the 4041's?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by mr.gefell

Any comments on the 4041's?

Well, since you asked ... We did a vocal /spoken word comparison between U87, Beyer 834, DPA 4041 and Behringer C1.
C1 was a sheer crap (I cannot say the same about B5), but 4041 did not sound very great either - very edgy, lacking a body ... (I was quite surprised). Beyer was OK but not comparable to U87 ...

[Don S]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

BTW: it is quite interesting that quite many people sent me an email or PM with their impressions rather than posting it to this thread ...

Gee, I didn't even think to do that!

[The MPCist]

ISedlacek,

These demos have gotten me really interested in the monochord. Where can I buy one? It sounds amazing!

I googled it and found the monochord to be a one-string instrument.... but listening to the demos, it sounds multi-stringed...... is that a mistype or is it really a one-string instrument that can be strummed like that?!

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

ISedlacek,

These demos have gotten me really interested in the monochord. Where can I buy one? It sounds amazing!

I googled it and found the monochord to be a one-string instrument.... but listening to the demos, it sounds multi-stringed...... is that a mistype or is it really a one-string instrument that can be strummed like that?!

It is a very special huge instrument with about 40 strings which was made by one German maker. But as I already mentioned in another thread, he somehow completely disappeared. I have been trying to contact him for almost two years, no success ... If I discover him again, I will let you know ...

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

It is a very special huge instrument with about 40 strings which was made by one German maker. But as I already mentioned in another thread, he somehow completely disappeared. I have been trying to contact him for almost two years, no success ... If I discover him again, I will let you know ...

Thanks!

So in this case, since it has 40 strings, should be it called 'multi-chord'..? Since it isn't mono anymore..? eh

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

So in this case, since it has 40 strings, should be it called 'multi-chord'..? Since it isn't mono anymore..? eh

This instrument has two sides (up and down). It is "monochord" just from one side and it has 20 strings, but all of them tuned to one tone, hence "monochord". The other side (this is what you heard) is a very "vibrational" variation on the Japanese koto - moveable bridges etc. ...
There is another variation on the monochord (I have it too) - the "therapeutic" one - it is placed directly on a lying person and produces incredible harmonic vibrations inside the body and mind ...

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

This instrument has two sides (up and down). It is "monochord" just from one side and it has 20 strings, but all of them tuned to one tone, hence "monochord". The other side (this is what you heard) is a very "vibrational" variation on the Japanese koto - moveable bridges etc. ...
There is another variation on the monochord (I have it too) - the "therapeutic" one - it is placed directly on a lying person and produces incredible harmonic vibrations inside the body and mind ...

Thanks for the info..... At first when I heard your audio clips, I thought it was a Guzhen, a harp-like Chinese instrument.

[sonare]

These were terrific illustrations of the charater of the chosen mics. I must wonder, tho, what a comparison between the MK2, 4006 w close grid, and 4061 with NO grid (which flattens the HF rise) might have soudned like!

It also sounds like these were used within 1-2m, so I am not surprised you chose the MK2. And it was very instructional to hear how the monochord strings sounded like metal with the DPA and nylon (or gut) with the Schoeps.

It would also be interesting to hear all these with the DAV Broadhurst Gardens micpre as an example of something nearly as uncolored but a little more liquid. The superb transient response of the Millennias came through well.

Rich

[sonare]

I was also curious why you chose to record at 96/32 as the Lavry only does 24 bits and your DAW probably expands the wordlength to 32 bit internally and automatically.

Rich

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by sonare

I was also curious why you chose to record at 96/32 as the Lavry only does 24 bits and your DAW probably expands the wordlength to 32 bit internally and automatically.

Rich

32 bit is only "floating" and improves the internal processing within the DAW. I actually don t know any 32 bit AD convertor ...