It ain't the gear, it's the ear!!

[johnnybigdog]

Seems to me that people rely to much on gear used rather than really listening to the sounds they are recording and how they fit in the sonic room.

I recorded our latest cd, SMALL TOWN SHEIKS "Songs For Parker" completely in GarageBand.
All instruments ran through that program and were captured by me only using a couple of $50.00 mics and a $300.00 interface. When done, it sounded pretty ok...

Now, here's the thing. Tracks were then taken to Steve Remote at Aura Sonic, Ltd. He mixed and produced this project continuing to only use GarageBand. We (Mike and I) are very happy how it turned out considering it was recorded and mixed on a free program with no other plug ins.

The cd sounds great to us due to just a good ear. The balance and tweaking of eqs, reverbs, room echo and other effects were not enhanced in any way other than what came with the apple program.

You can take a listen and listen to what you hear from samples through our website: Small Town Sheiks

This is not to say that good equipment doesn't count, but I believe great success can be found by tuning your ear rather than paying up for gear.

An expensive studio means nothing if the guy behind the mouse (or faders), which could be any of us, doesn't have a trained ear. I believe it's more important to do that for yourself rather than break the bank to think that will make you any better.

[Remoteness]

Welcome to the forum Johnny Boy!
It's great to see you here and stuff.

There's a great back story to this project that I'd like to include to this thread, but will have to add it to my next post...

I got to jump back to what I'm doing for awhile longer.

[loranoyd]

... and the talent in front of the mics as well! Good pitch, good diction, clean guitar playing, etc. etc. Not to mention good songwriting, good arranging... all these things make the recording job so much easier. However, that's not to detract from the obvious hard work by the talent behind the console! Congrats!

Regards,

Lloyd

[David Spearritt]

Where's the EarSlutz site then?

[memphisindie]

I TOTALLY agree. I once got a group signed to a major with an 8 channel mixer, drums submixed, on a Tascam 38 and ONE mic.
It's 100% ears, cuz the gear I used was crap. Garage band is waaaaay better.
I never buy plugins, I can adjust my own stock plugins, I was trained during an internship in audio physics when the dinosaurs roamed apparently.
If anyone has a pair of ears, It's Steve, he doesn't "need" the fancy stuff, he just prefers it and has it, & because people ask for it, & it will do some neat things ya can't do easily without it, but, garage band does a LOT of those things.
I've done audio for a feature length and a short with it. It works perfect.
I collaborate with a guy who uses it for the collaboration.
Glad your recording sounds great!

[LX3]

Hey, the whole of the Eurythmics' "Sweet Dreams" was recorded on a Tascam 38 8-track, if I remember correctly.

There's nothing like putting constraints on the technology you're using to make you concentrate on the music.

That said, great gear in the hands of great engineers and producers sounds pretty good too!

But man, the things I could have done with GarageBand back in the early eighties (when I was unbelievably excited just to get hold of a Tascam Portastudio. I wore that thing out in a year.). I know a lot of musicians who, with limitless tracks of beyond-CD-quality recording, and scores of plug-in effects, never record anything worthwhile. Now they've got the capability, they seem to have run out of ideas.

[boojum]

Yes talent triumphs. Socrates taught in the marketplace by writing with a stick in the dust. But we are not all Socrates, alas. Some of us need the extra juice.

[Uncle Russ]

While you don't need the finest gear to get an excellent recording, certain kinds of music place greater demands on gear than others. For example a string quartet versus a rock band.

I suspect that were you to use SM57s and mediocre mic preamps to record the string quartet and compare that result with one you did at the same time using Schoeps mics and Grace preamps you would hear a substantial difference ... no matter who did the recording.

Generalizations cannot cover every situation; that is why they are generalizations.

Just in case anyone mistakes the intent of my post, I am NOT a gear snob. But I do try to understand the limitations of the gear I use.

[Sounds Great]

This site is about recording gear. You also need talent in front of the microphone to come up with something that is really worth recording.

After that, the discussion here comes into play, as to what gear to use to make it sound the best it can. Nobody ever claimed that great gear will replace the front end component.

[Torea]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Where's the EarSlutz site then?

If that site does exist, I doubt it has anything to do with recording...... tutt

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Uncle Russ

snip •

Certain kinds of music place greater demands on gear than others. For example a string quartet versus a rock band.
I suspect that were you to use SM57s and mediocre mic preamps to record the string quartet and compare that result with one you did at the same time using Schoeps mics and Grace preamps you would hear a substantial difference ... no matter who did the recording.
Generalizations cannot cover every situation; that is why they are generalizations.snip

Ha ha, no doubt!
Hell of a good point.

[Jay-]

I have NO GEAR and so far it sucks pretty bad and sounds like my hands smacking together with various rudimentary clicks and grunts.

Also my ear is clogged.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by Uncle Russ

Just in case anyone mistakes the intent of my post, I am NOT a gear snob. But I do try to understand the limitations of the gear I use.

So true. Everything sounds great until you hear something better, e.g. a chinese LDC sounds fine until you check out a [insert expensive mic manufacturer here]. But at least the bottom end of the quality scale is closer to the top end than it was 5 years ago... and the two ends of the scale are much closer together than they were thirty years ago.

Good times. Now all we need are the songs Unfortunately, all this technological progress hasn't done a lot to help there. I'd still rather record Bowie with some 57s than many current artists with a cupboard full of Neumanns.

[Sinewave]

Originally Posted by johnnybigdog

Seems to me that people rely to much on gear used rather than really listening to the sounds they are recording and how they fit in the sonic room.

I recorded our latest cd, SMALL TOWN SHEIKS "Songs For Parker" completely in GarageBand.
All instruments ran through that program and were captured by me only using a couple of $50.00 mics and a $300.00 interface. When done, it sounded pretty ok...

Now, here's the thing. Tracks were then taken to Steve Remote at Aura Sonic, Ltd. He mixed and produced this project continuing to only use GarageBand. We (Mike and I) are very happy how it turned out considering it was recorded and mixed on a free program with no other plug ins.

The cd sounds great to us due to just a good ear. The balance and tweaking of eqs, reverbs, room echo and other effects were not enhanced in any way other than what came with the apple program.

You can take a listen and listen to what you hear from samples through our website: Small Town Sheiks

This is not to say that good equipment doesn't count, but I believe great success can be found by tuning your ear rather than paying up for gear.

An expensive studio means nothing if the guy behind the mouse (or faders), which could be any of us, doesn't have a trained ear. I believe it's more important to do that for yourself rather than break the bank to think that will make you any better.

Welcome Dude , great work, nice music thumbsup

[Sinewave]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

This site is about recording gear. You also need talent in front of the microphone to come up with something that is really worth recording.

After that, the discussion here comes into play, as to what gear to use to make it sound the best it can. Nobody ever claimed that great gear will replace the front end component.

Agreed thumbsup

[chris319]

This thread is heresy! Ask any gearslut: if you haven't spent at least $3,000 on mics and $5,000 on preamps, it may as well be a scratchy old vinyl recording of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" from the 1920s

[philper]

You can do a personal project for art's sake on any equipts you like. If you are in business to make excellent recordings that can be sold for money you need both the ears and the gear (and the ears to PICK the gear). Why pretend this is not true when it is what everyone who is successful in the recording BUSINESS does?

phil p

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by johnnybigdog

Seems to me that people rely to much on gear used rather than really listening to the sounds they are recording and how they fit in the sonic room.

I recorded our latest cd, SMALL TOWN SHEIKS "Songs For Parker" completely in GarageBand.
All instruments ran through that program and were captured by me only using a couple of $50.00 mics and a $300.00 interface. When done, it sounded pretty ok...

Now, here's the thing. Tracks were then taken to Steve Remote at Aura Sonic, Ltd. He mixed and produced this project continuing to only use GarageBand. We (Mike and I) are very happy how it turned out considering it was recorded and mixed on a free program with no other plug ins.

The cd sounds great to us due to just a good ear. The balance and tweaking of eqs, reverbs, room echo and other effects were not enhanced in any way other than what came with the apple program.

You can take a listen and listen to what you hear from samples through our website: Small Town Sheiks

This is not to say that good equipment doesn't count, but I believe great success can be found by tuning your ear rather than paying up for gear.

An expensive studio means nothing if the guy behind the mouse (or faders), which could be any of us, doesn't have a trained ear. I believe it's more important to do that for yourself rather than break the bank to think that will make you any better.

Ah yes, I must have "brainwashed" you guys when I consider the number of times I've said, "it's the ear not the gear when it come to a good mix."

Now, for the back story:

Johnny and I go back many years to the early 80s when we hung around a local rehearsal/recording studio near my home in Queens, NY.

We lost touch, but reconnected via facebook. He sent me his (at the time) demo "reel" of Songs for Parker. I immediately fell in love with the tunes. Johnny is a great storyteller. I asked him who recorded his material and he said, he bought an iMac and tracked everything in is basement using GarageBand. He processed to tell me that (almost) everything was recorded with a pair of $50.00 MXL mics and a M-audio doohickey. I believe they used Mike's $100.00 MXL mic to track all the harmonica parts. Everything else was a guitar jack plugged into that M-audio gigmeister.

I told him that the tunes were solid, but they needed some mixing love and that I would be very interested in mixing a couple of tunes out of the ten I heard...

Johnny and Mike came down to my shop. We listened to the tracks in Elroy, and discussed which ones I wanted to mix.
We played the first tune and I said, yep; then the second, yep; the third, yep; the forth, yes sir; we got half-way in and I said, all these tunes are solid numbers. Man, as we listened to the remaining songs, I realized I wanted (needed!) to mix them all. I wasn't going to have it any other way;-)

I mean, the arrangements and structure of the material were simply awesome. I played around with the tracks a bit, but the main structure was all Johnny baby!

I decided to continue in GarageBand just because I know we could;-)
Johnny is spot on when he said, we only used the EQs, compressors/limiters, reverbs, delays, and such that came with the GarageBand program.

I stand by the simple fact that when it comes to mixing/tracking multiple mics, your "ear" is much more important than the gear.

Don't get me wrong, the right gear plays a big part in getting a great sound, and it can be essential at times, but it is not paramount in multi-track recordings. Your "ear" and technique plays a much bigger role in this scenario. IMHO, mic placement, instrument positioning, room tone and last but not least, musicianship are key in getting that "big" sound.

I said, this to a local band a few weeks back: Master GarageBand, so you can play with (ProTools) Logic. Buying every bell and whistle your local "Banjo Depot" sales agent tells you to buy is not always your best route.

Originally Posted by loranoyd

... and the talent in front of the mics as well! Good pitch, good diction, clean guitar playing, etc. etc. Not to mention good songwriting, good arranging... all these things make the recording job so much easier. However, that's not to detract from the obvious hard work by the talent behind the console! Congrats!

Regards,

Lloyd

It's true, an engineer/producer is only as good as the musicians he (or she) keeps.

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Where's the EarSlutz site then?

Right here my man!

Originally Posted by memphisindie

I TOTALLY agree. I once got a group signed to a major with an 8 channel mixer, drums submixed, on a Tascam 38 and ONE mic.
It's 100% ears, cuz the gear I used was crap. Garage band is waaaaay better.
I never buy plugins, I can adjust my own stock plugins, I was trained during an internship in audio physics when the dinosaurs roamed apparently.
If anyone has a pair of ears, It's Steve, he doesn't "need" the fancy stuff, he just prefers it and has it, & because people ask for it, & it will do some neat things ya can't do easily without it, but, garage band does a LOT of those things.
I've done audio for a feature length and a short with it. It works perfect.
I collaborate with a guy who uses it for the collaboration.
Glad your recording sounds great!

Originally Posted by LX3

Hey, the whole of the Eurythmics' "Sweet Dreams" was recorded on a Tascam 38 8-track, if I remember correctly.

There's nothing like putting constraints on the technology you're using to make you concentrate on the music.

That said, great gear in the hands of great engineers and producers sounds pretty good too!

But man, the things I could have done with GarageBand back in the early eighties (when I was unbelievably excited just to get hold of a Tascam Portastudio. I wore that thing out in a year.). I know a lot of musicians who, with limitless tracks of beyond-CD-quality recording, and scores of plug-in effects, never record anything worthwhile. Now they've got the capability, they seem to have run out of ideas.

A great tune will always shine through any sort of mix if you know what you're listening to or what to look for.

When it comes to equipment, master the small stuff (or what you have at the moment,) so you can truly appreciate the big stuff in your future.

For me, when it comes to owning gear, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

When it comes to the tune, folks are buying your talent and sound, not the gear you used.

Originally Posted by boojum

Yes talent triumphs. Socrates taught in the marketplace by writing with a stick in the dust. But we are not all Socrates, alas. Some of us need the extra juice.

Very strong Sandy! Very strong words indeed.

Originally Posted by Uncle Russ

While you don't need the finest gear to get an excellent recording, certain kinds of music place greater demands on gear than others. For example a string quartet versus a rock band.

I suspect that were you to use SM57s and mediocre mic preamps to record the string quartet and compare that result with one you did at the same time using Schoeps mics and Grace preamps you would hear a substantial difference ... no matter who did the recording.

Generalizations cannot cover every situation; that is why they are generalizations.

Just in case anyone mistakes the intent of my post, I am NOT a gear snob. But I do try to understand the limitations of the gear I use.

I believe you do need the finest gear to get an excellent recording; I'm talking about the balance of instruments and the art of mixing multiple mics in (Americana) this genre of music.

Classical and such is a completely different mindset and needs to be addressed differently.

In any event, I totally agree with your view point on this generalization.

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

This site is about recording gear. You also need talent in front of the microphone to come up with something that is really worth recording.

After that, the discussion here comes into play, as to what gear to use to make it sound the best it can. Nobody ever claimed that great gear will replace the front end component.

This site may be about the recording gear, but this forum is about the gear, the "ear" and technique. Most of us capture music in all sorts of venues; our open (outside of the box) approach is very important to us when we're placed with difficult places or situations to record in. There's no going back in our world. IMHO, our mind's eye and ears are much more important than anything else we can bring to the table when in an adverse condition.

I love your last sentence, "Nobody ever claimed that great gear will replace the front end component."

That said, I guess you didn't listen to what that "Banjo Depot" sales agent was trying to say...


Just kidding!

Originally Posted by Jay-

I have NO GEAR and so far it sucks pretty bad and sounds like my hands smacking together with various rudimentary clicks and grunts.

Also my ear is clogged.

Ear wax can be a serious issue, not having an open mind with regard to sound recording is even a bigger problem.

Spend one day with a seasoned recording engineer and you will have a different outlook on all this stuff.

Originally Posted by LX3

So true. Everything sounds great until you hear something better, e.g. a chinese LDC sounds fine until you check out a [insert expensive mic manufacturer here]. But at least the bottom end of the quality scale is closer to the top end than it was 5 years ago... and the two ends of the scale are much closer together than they were thirty years ago.

Good times. Now all we need are the songs Unfortunately, all this technological progress hasn't done a lot to help there. I'd still rather record Bowie with some 57s than many current artists with a cupboard full of Neumanns.

Sonically, there are plenty of CDs that sound better, but I'm referring to the balance and mixing of the tunes. In the end it's really about how it comes off to the listener; does it pop? does it sound pleasing to the hear? That's the dynamic I'm talking about.

The bottom end of the quality scale is indeed closer to the top end these days... That's a very good point. The ends of the scale are much closer than ever before.

The technological progress you're referring to may have done a lot to help, but I believe we have a winner with regard to 'Small Town Sheiks' and I don't need a "cupboard full of Neumanns." to capture their sound even though I may want to use them on the next recording.

Originally Posted by chris319

This thread is heresy! Ask any gearslut: if you haven't spent at least $3,000 on mics and $5,000 on preamps, it may as well be a scratchy old vinyl recording of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" from the 1920s

That's what the dude at the "Banjo Depot" told me, but I didn't believe it...

You see, I live for 'sound,' not for 'gear,' but it may possibly be an awesome suggestion!
Since I already have plenty of expensive gear I may want to find that "scratchy old vinyl recording" plug-in if GarageBand is not available for their next recording.

[Sounds Great]

Incidentally, my signature over at rec.audio.pro for many years was:

"What I lack in gear, I make up for in ear." That was probably starting about 1998.

[Remoteness]

Tremendous!

I wish more of us had this mindset, especially the ones with all the (right) gear.

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Incidentally, my signature over at rec.audio.pro for many years was:

"What I lack in gear, I make up for in ear." That was probably starting about 1998.

[Sounds Great]

Here it is, I found some archived posts from 2000.


Coming soon, AT & Oktava shoot out - rec.audio.pro | Google Groups

[mixedupsteve]

iZotope Vinyl - Authentic Lo-Fi Vinyl Simulation for Pro Tools, VST, MAS, Audio Unit, and DirectX audio applications

[Remoteness]

A valuable (cool) plug-in for sure; thanks for the link, Steve.

Perhaps, I'm looking for a less expensive version of that "scratchy old vinyl recording" sound all the (economically challenged) kids are using when they cannot make the upgrade to "that" special (expensive) toy you must have to get your sound!

...or perhaps, NOT!

I understand there's a balance between the two.
I'm just saying you don't need the gear to get your (great) sound.
That said, great sounding gear gets you there faster for sure.
Is it the end all? I think not.
What will a crappy mix on great gear get you?
I know what it gives the "Banjo Depot."

Remember:
IMHO, buy (use) something for its sound and it will only sound like that unit.
Use your ears and connect whatever gear you can get your hands on and your sound will always be your own!

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

iZotope Vinyl - Authentic Lo-Fi Vinyl Simulation for Pro Tools, VST, MAS, Audio Unit, and DirectX audio applications

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Here it is, I found some archived posts from 2000.


Coming soon, AT & Oktava shoot out - rec.audio.pro | Google Groups

Love it!

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Buying every bell and whistle your local "Banjo Depot" sales agent tells you to buy is not always your best route.
...
That said, I guess you didn't listen to what that "Banjo Depot" sales agent was trying to say...
...

That's what the dude at the "Banjo Depot" told me, but I didn't believe it...
...
I know what it gives the "Banjo Depot."

Alright, I'm going to start taking this personally any minute now...

[Remoteness]

Hey, wait just one minute Jimbo.
So, where do you buy your Banjos anyway?

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Alright, I'm going to start taking this personally any minute now...

[bauwerk]

Trust me , i'm a slut! A well rigged studio with blinking leds i can be fascinated by for hours and thats without hearing anything
That said though, people should learn to mix instead of getting themselfs in debt searching for that new magical piece that will fix the mix, there aint no such thing!

[Cadde]

Originally Posted by chris319

This thread is heresy! Ask any gearslut: if you haven't spent at least $3,000 on mics and $5,000 on preamps, it may as well be a scratchy old vinyl recording of "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" from the 1920s

LOL !

[johnnybigdog]

I don't profess to being a gear head. Although I am learning from Steve all the time where the real importance in proper sound capturing and engineering lives.
Steve has all the fancy dohickies that anyone could hope to need or use for their project at Aura Sonic. But, what I am learning is "The Art Of The Ear". I am happily humbled at times at where my ear is now as compared to before. And let me tell ya, at times this old dog couldn't hear the Master Engineer's whistle(or esses)in the room.
Like any art, talent comes from the inside not outside. Gear has only the potential to enhance not create. That has to come from within.
That being said, with my education at "The Steve Remote School For The Giftedly Challenged" comes the fact that my Christmas list will look a little different this year.
I asked my wife for a Neuman this Christmas and she said, "Not in front of the kids".

"Ancora Imparo" - Michael Angelo said this when he was 80 years old. It means, "I'm still learning".

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Hey, wait just one minute Jimbo.
So, where do you buy your Banjos anyway?

Well, I don't buy them at the f'n Banjo Mart. That's for sure.

No...wait...I mean....