Need feedback on grand piano recording

[joelpatterson]

This sounds, really, really good! The only thing I'd say it lacks is a sheen of clarity that you might well get by bringing the mics in ever-so-slightly closer... seems like there's a muffliness happening, somehow... certain notes hit with crispness, but others get slightly submerged-- you want to feel their impact and be carried along by their story, but they're struggling to rise above the wash of the notes hit previously.

Great effort, though! I always tend to place the treble mic up on the next-to-the-shortest rib of the harp, up near the hammers, and then put the bass mic down at the way far end of the box, over the end of the longest rib-- gives the stereo potential as much room to bloom as possible.

I also tend to think it's really the vibrating harp that I'm really recording-- the hammers strike the strings, and everything, but it's the harp where all the action is.

Good job!

[MBM1]

Thanks for feedback and good advice!

[jnorman]

my take on this is a bit different from joel's. i typically mic piano either just outside the curve for solos, and from around 10 feet or so if a duo or small ensemble. i have done quite a bit of close micing of piano, and while you can capture the sound of the soundboard that way, you dont ever seem to capture to sound of the instrument as a whole. pianos are large instruments, and the sound of a very nice instrument is not always apparent at just a couple feet away - you really need to back off the instrument to capture the way the strings and soundbaord interact with the case and body of the piano. most classical piano works are recorded from a fair distance in a nice hall. also, i find that omnis almost always give a fuller representation of a good piano than cards do.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I also tend to think it's really the vibrating harp that I'm really recording-- the hammers strike the strings, and everything, but it's the harp where all the action is.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by jnorman

you really need to back off the instrument to capture the way the strings and soundbaord interact with the case and body of the piano. most classical piano works are recorded from a fair distance in a nice hall. also, i find that omnis almost always give a fuller representation of a good piano than cards do.

For jazz, the mics may be above the strings. Then one gets more the beat. Plush reported that he recorded Keith Jarrett by means of a pair of Schoeps Mk4 in ORTF above the strings. I just took this picture from the booklet of the CD Piano solo from Stefano Bollani (ECM).

[Dan Steinberg]

Originally Posted by jnorman

my take on this is a bit different from joel's. i typically mic piano either just outside the curve for solos, and from around 10 feet or so if a duo or small ensemble. i have done quite a bit of close micing of piano, and while you can capture the sound of the soundboard that way, you dont ever seem to capture to sound of the instrument as a whole. pianos are large instruments, and the sound of a very nice instrument is not always apparent at just a couple feet away - you really need to back off the instrument to capture the way the strings and soundbaord interact with the case and body of the piano.

I agree that this approach tends to do a nicer job of capturing the "complete" sound of the piano, than using mics much closer to the strings. The downside of course is that the room itself better sound good because more of it will be making it into the mics.

On one session I assisted on, the engineer used a method that sounded wonderful but is not for the faint of heart. He removed the pins that attached the lid to the piano and the entire lid was removed (and yes, it was very heavy).

The absence of lid enabled him to position a single stereo mic (AKG C24) directly above the piano, about 3 feet above the strings with the capsules pointing down in X-Y to capture the stereo image of the strings.

Thanks!

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by didier.brest

Or course-- some people are much more forthcoming with their advice from years of experience and wisdom than I am.

[didier.brest]

Joel, I am sure that you recording experience is much larger than mine. thumbsup

However,as an amateur pianist much interested in the intrument, I could not accept this very strange idea that the piano sound would be produced mainly by its heavy massive iron frame, even if named purposedly harp. Where are sticked contact microphones: on the 'harp' or on the soundbooard?

[joelpatterson]

My ego is much larger-- that's for sure!

Not the first strange idea I've had, might not be the last-- and as with alot of these semi-coherent, intuitive notions, I could be describing the forest as a conference of trees, but-- the massive frame definitely plays its role-- vibrating and "ringing" and "focusing" the sound. We need a shootout-- a piano with a harp, and a piano without one.