FOH BASICS??

[joaquin]

Hi fellow Remoters!!
Incredibly, Today I got a gig doing live sound for 5 bands this next saturaday!! I say incredibly because of this thread:http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=54634
Though I've done FOH a couple of times in sort of a intuitive/improvised way, this time I'd like to get the best out of the experience. I'll be using a Mackie VLZ16 and a bounch of Bheringer "composer" compressors, there's a dbx in there too. and plenty of EQs and power. A couple of JBL speakers and subwoofer. I'll also have 3 mackie "monitor" speakers.
I have many questions for the FOH AEs...if you could give me some basic guidance in respect the basic set-up I'd really appreciate it!!

1)What are basic guidelines for panning?? How is the stereo field any different for Live sound compared to studio work??

2)Where should I place the Master EQ? in the master insert or after the main outputs and into the Power amplifier?...or it doesn't make much difference? How should I aprach the use of it? any Tips?

3)Do you usually "ring" the monitor speakers during sound check? I'm reading about the procedure and would like to have some input from your experience!

4)How useful are the Gates? I'd like to get a very natural rough Rock sound...can I live without using them?

5) What are in your experience the basic steps, or considerations in order to get the best posible Sound?

I'm sure That I'll have more questions before the Gig, but if you could share some of your experience I'd really appreciate it!!
Thanks.......................Joaquin.

[six_wax]

I will be curious to see the answers to this, as I'm a studio guy who knows nada about live sound...

[dasbin]

Originally Posted by joaquin

1)What are basic guidelines for panning?? How is the stereo field any different for Live sound compared to studio work??

The basic guideline for panning a live show is, don't. Most live mixes are mono. You simply don't want one side of the house to hear more of any instrument than the other side. Equal coverage is key, and panning will just mess this right up.
In certain situations you might be able to get away with panning things like drum overheads a little bit, where both sides are largely picking up the same thing and the live-off-the-floor sound is going to radiate off the stage in mono anyway.

2)Where should I place the Master EQ? in the master insert or after the main outputs and into the Power amplifier?...or it doesn't make much difference? How should I aprach the use of it? any Tips?

Up to you, it doesn't much matter. Use it only to address specific problems related to your mains. For example, if you know the wrap-around frequency of the JBL's you may wish a cut a little in this region. If not you can probably find it easily enough by seeing if there is one area where all your mics seem to feedback at first.
Tonal balance of the room can be carefully compensated for with master EQ, but be careful. Check all around the room whenever you change anything.
If the speakers sound harsh, find the harsh frequency (usually around 4Khz) and cut it a bit. Things like that. It's entirely an art and entirely up to the individual sound engineer. Others approach the master EQ section differently.
If you can't calibrate the sub level independantly of your clusters then the EQ might be useful for that as well.

3)Do you usually "ring" the monitor speakers during sound check? I'm reading about the procedure and would like to have some input from your experience!

Yes, absolutely. Do it. Turn off your mains. Don't apply any EQ to the channel that is only feeding back through the monitors - use a seperate graphic EQ just for monitors only and ONLY touch that when ringing out.
Do it liberally and in as narrow bands possible but don't get carried away. If you cut too much, the overall volume-before-feedback might actually be less because you have taken away so much substance from the sound. Cut just enough to remove the feedback at the set volume, no more. Don't try to keep pushing for infinity. Set a limit and stop there. Usually I stop after the first 3 bands to feedback are rung out.
While you do this, it may be helpful to get an assistant to go up to the mics (with very strong earplugs in!) and physically pose to 'sing', to create the kind of reflections and absorptions that will exist on stage during the show.
Keep one hand on the fader at all time. When you're ringing out, you just want to push it enough so you start hearing a tiny bit of the feedback and are able to guess the frequency. Because of the nature of feedback, it will grow as soon as you strike the right volume level. Start bringing the fader down as soon as you hear anything; you will still hear the feedback frequency, trust me.
Get good at this last paragraph and anyone else in the house will thank you for it. At this point I'm able to manually ring out a system in a couple minutes at such low levels that no one around even realizes they're hearing feedback. This takes practice though. For your first time, just get everyone else out of there.
Others prefer to ring out by boosting one band on the EQ at a time and seeing if it is a problem frequency. This has its advantages and disadvantages. You may excite (and therefore end up erroneously cutting) frequencies that won't become as excited during the show. It also takes longer. Up to you though. I usually prefer to boost overall fader volume and let the system tell me where it is most sensitive right away.

4)How useful are the Gates? I'd like to get a very natural rough Rock sound...can I live without using them?

I never use gates live. I would skip them unless you specifically need them.

5) What are in your experience the basic steps, or considerations in order to get the best posible Sound?

Keep the mix simple wherever possible. Err on the side of very little EQ. Place your mains well. Most importantly, get the musicians cozy and confident. This means taking the time to do precisely what they want with the monitor mix.
Use good mics. This doesn't always mean a 58 on vox. A 535 or beta 87a might be a far better choice. On the other hand, it might be worse - if you have time, try your options on the singer through the house.
I have found that a live show is FAR MORE about the gear and the acoustics than working in the studio is! The key is to get good stuff, especially mains, and just let them do their thing. Don't screw anything up.

This is a personal opinion, but:
- Don't turn it up so loud my ears hurt. Please! Even a "loud" rock band I far prefer to hear at more reasonable volumes. The mix will be better for it, as you won't be distorting everyone's eardrums and overdriving the mains horns.
- Make damn sure your mix isn't harsh. Please!
- Don't go too nuts on the bass. Keep it reasonable. Remember that some people in different areas of the venue are likely to be sitting in the middle of a room mode and won't hear a darn thing except for the bass if you have it particularily loud in the mix.

Oh yes, be sure your grounding situation is a good one. Both power and audio. Check all your lines and outlets before you run the gig. You don't want the singer going into a coma when his lips touch the mic. It has happened before. Try NOT to lift audio ground to solve problems - instead, go to the source and figure out why you have a ground loop.

[ExistanceMusic]

Bradley, that was an excellent post. In reference to the master eq, by this I assume you mean a graphic eq accross the FOH mix. The most common way to hook this up is in series with the speakers using balanced XLR cables. for example: L/R out -> EQ -> amps.
This keeps the signal balanced all the way. If you were to use an insert point you would be adding an unbalanced signal into your chain. This probably would not be a problem, but it's better to not tempt fate. keep inserts to the channels. You can also ring out problem frequencys in the manner brad described above.

My other point is on your mindset. In a studio you have control over the level of every sound. Live, you do not. Your job is Sound Reinforcement, IE, you are reinforcing the quiet sounds from the band to keep up with the LOUD sounds coming off stage already. If the bass and drums are really loud, don't try and "compete" with them using the PA. Turn the quiet stuff up and use the natural balance in the room to your advantage.
Also, don't be shy in asking players with amps to turn them down. If the guitarists can't hear themselves, stick the amp on a chair facing towards their head. Same with bass amps. The louder it is on stage the harder it will be to get the vocalists happy.

On monitor mixing from FOH, I've found lately that the best way to do it, time permitting, is to get everything "ok", then have the band go through a song, start to finish. Jump up on stage and listen to everyones mix, from their position. Talk to them, use your ears and make changes accordingly. It's much easier than constant "is that ok? is THAT ok? how 'bout now?" type exchanges. I know with a multi-act night you can't do this with everyone, but once you've got the first band down, you'll have a reference to go from.

I think the most important thing is to stay on your toes andhave fun. No matter how much we tell you here, you will learn 500% more on the night. Live sound can be very stressful but it can also be extremely satisfying if you approach it right.

Have a big meal beforehand, drink lots of fluids (amber or otherwise) and HAVE FUN!

[dplitt]

Bradley had some excellent advice for you and i hope my 2 cents worth will be of some help. Live sound is a much different animal than studio as you don't have the luxury of doing retakes plus your setup should be planned out in advance to facilitate a quick turn around between bands. Examples are:
1: lable your board in such a way as to make it easier to set up the bands, such as kick, snare, rack tom, floor tom etc.. bass, lead & rythm guitars,..keys,.. lead vocals, backup vocals and so on.

2: use your subgroups for a quick one fader control during the mix. An example on a Mackie 1604 would be:
group 1- toms/high hat (I usally run kick & snare L/R out for more control)
group 2- keys or horns
group 3- back ground vocals
group 4- lead vocals

3: Make up stage snakes for your drums and front vocals and lable both ends (this will be a big help when doing a quick change out of bands)

4: Contact the bands prior to the gig and get a stage plot and find out what they want in their monitor mixes then go to the manufactuers website (of your sound board) and download the cue sheet for your particular board. Lable the channels and aux (moniter) mixes for each band. Be helpfull with the bands and develop a good working relationship with them. This will pay great dividends on gig day.

5: visit the venue prior to the event and find out where the stage setup will be. If it is an indoor event, walk around the room and clap your hands and listen for the "livleyness" of the room as the natural room acoustics will play a big role in your sound. Be aware though that once the room fills with people that the acoustics will change as human bodies are great asorbers of sound especially in the high mids.

6: Ask about your electrical power (at the stage). A good rule of thumb is to allow 1 dedicated 20 amp curcuit per amplifier (especially for your subwoffer amps) and 2 20 amp curcuits for the band. Allways draw power for your board and outboard gear from the same source as the rest of your gear (IE; amps and stage) this will lessen your chances for a ground loop problem, IE; the dreaded 60hz hum through your system.

As for your post questions:
PANNING
I strongly agree with Bradley. Run a mono system and dont worry about panning (unless your mixing Pink Floyd).

MASTER EQ
Since you are using a Mackie (sorry, but not my first choice..lol) and that particular model has inserts on the main outs, i would use them. The reason is that you are less apt to overload the input stage of the EQ using the inserts plus the XLR or TRS output on the board (after the insert point) will "balance" the line. You also mentioned that you have several compressors. I would daisy chain the compressor after the eq then into the insert and do a suttle (mabe 3:1) compression on the entire mix. This can often work wonders on bringing a soft background vocal or other low signal into the mix. One word of caution is not to over EQ or over compress your mix as this could lead to feedback problems and a general muddiness in your mix. Be conservative and let your ears be the judge.

GATES
The only thing that I gate in a live mix is my kick drum. The reason I do this is to help aleviate low end rumble (feed back) between songs. I use a Shure beta 52 on the kick, it's a large diaphram mic and depending on the venue, stage livleyness and sub placement, sometimes i will get a rumble between songs but the gate helps this alot.

GENERAL STUFF
Feedback:
Since the first soundsystem was invented (shortly after the wheel) feed back has been a problem. I use Sabine FBX feed back eliminaters on my outputs so i get quite a bit of gain on my systems. There are things that you can do to help cut down on feed back if you dont have eliminaters.
Watch your input trims. on the Mackie a setting at the unity level (the "U" marking or 10 oclock position) should give you sufficient gain. If you go much above that (say the 12 o'clock0 you will have too much gain and feed back can occur.
Watch your speaker placement. Allways have your mics behind your speakers.

Stage Rumble
this is a low rumble that comes out of your mains. This usually occurs from a hollow stage. Vibrations from the stage transmit up your mic stands into your mics. a quick fix is to cut out anything below 80hz on all vocal mics (theirs nothing voal their anyway)

Overhead mics
Overheads (especially condensers) are a main culprit in feed back problems so you should trim them very carfully.

Vocals
If a vocal is not cutting in the mix. Instead of continuing to turn it up try adding a little channel EQ (a little boost at 1200 Mhz sometimes works wonders) if it sounds too harsh then boost a little at around 600hz to warm it up. If your having a bad day, just get the vocals to sound good first and eventually everything else will fall into place.

I hope that this has been of some help. Live sound is both fun and a bit trickey, I have been doing live for about 18 years and it never ceases to amaze me at how little I know...lol. I guess the best way to sum it up is that it is a continuing learning experience. My best advice is to just stay calm and have fun.

I appologize for the length of this post, I got carried away and PLEASE excuse the spelling (it's not my "thing")

Dan Plitt
SOUND SOURCE
San Diego, Ca

[joaquin]

Hello!! Thank you so much for the detailed answers!! The most fundamental basics are cleared out...Thanks!! I think that I'm learning a lot!!
I'm sorry that I did not answer before, but was, as Dan mentioned, (welcome to the board!) studying the console Manual.

As Info.:
-This is going to be outside, only one offending wall at back of the "room" but in around a 120' angle relative to the stage, and relatively far...I think that shouldn't be much of an issue...we'll see.
-The Gear is all rental and it looks a bit abused...so I hope everything works. I'll have an assistant, from the rental company, so I should be pretty much covered with Help.
-the show consists of 5 acts.
1. DJ, with laptop plus Live drums.
2. Rock Trio, bass, guit, drums, 2 vox.
3. Rock quartet, bass, 2 guit, drums, 2 vox.
4. Alternative pop, synth bass, Keybords, Guitar, drums, 2 vox
5. Rock Trio, bass, guitar, drums, 1Vox.

-I'll be there arond 11am, soundcheck should be around 1pm, show start at 9pm. 30min per band, but plenty of time in between for other activities going inside the complex.
-I'll bring my cable tester, a D112 for the Kick, a couple of 57s, My radial JDI DI, and some backup cables..just in case. The Rental have everything, but they only have a CAD drum mic set, that I do not know...so I thought... They also have a couple of Octava condenser mics that I'll use for OHs.

-I'll run a snake with a 16ch XLR inputs from the stage, and I hope that I'll have all racks around my mixing position (around the same distance between speakers a bit to the left of the center)

Questions & Toughts!!
- The Mackie, has 4 AUX sends. I'm planning on using 1 & 2 for monitors, for I'll have the ability to send some reverb to that signals. AUX sends 3 and 4 do not have that benefit, but I need at least 3 monitors on stage (one for lead, one for backvox/Guitar/ and one for Drummer) So I'm planning on just use a dry signal from AUX SEND 3...for the drummer!? that should be OK no?
AUX send 4 will go MONO into a reverb and came back stereo into AUX Returns 1. L.-R. .......I'm going to skip the usual(!?) Delay FX and make my life a bit easier.

-I'll patch the Master EQ in my MAIN INSERTas you told me, but I thought that I'll put it "after" the MASTER COMPRESSOR, so this one will not mess with my EQ balance...does this make any sense?

-I'll use the LOW CUT(75HZ 18db/octave) as suggested by you in all channels but the Kick and Bass...may be I'll leave it out for some of the DJ programming.

- Acording to the Mixer's Manual, the console gives it's best performance aroun "U" Unity levels. What should be in your opinion my MASTER fader initial position?

-I'd like to have compressors as inserts for: Kick, Snare, Toms(2), Bass, Voxes and one stereo for my Main Insert. My selection is limited to what they have:
1x dbx266 2channels, 1x bheringer ComposerMDX2600 2ch, 1x Alesis 3630 2ch, 1x Bheringer MDX400 4ch.
What should be the best way to distribute this across the mentioned channels? I do not know any of them, so I do not have an opinion.

-What are the starting points standards (if they exist) for Compressor's Ratios, thresholds, attack and releases for the before mentioned instruments/situation? what do you think of the "AUTOMATIC" feature that many of this units have for attack and release? is it any good?

-I'm going to do as you told me and go MONO.I'm planning on using SUB1 for the OHs, SUB2 for the toms and HiHat, SUB3 for Guitars, SUB4 for Voxes. The Kick, snare and Bass I'll send straight to the L.-R. MASTER MIX. For the "Alt Pop band", I'll just substitute one of the Guitars Inputs for the Keyboard and the Bass line for the Bass synth....maybe I'll just use the extra inputs that I may have...what do you think is the best Buss configuration for this setup?

-Should I take notes of all the settings for each band at soundcheck?...I guess the answer is yes. Any tips on how to do it?

Thank you so much once again. Your Knowledge is very much appreciated!!. Please disregard al stupid questions, for I'm trying to understand the system with only theory up to now. All your years of experience and comments are most valuable for me and all the Remote Lurkers and newbies around this Forum. Thank for your good will and patience. ......................Joaquin.

[dplitt]

Hi joaquin
It sounds like a pretty straightforth gig. Since your outside you wont have to battle the acoustics of a room (allthough sometimes that could work in your favor).
You mentioned that you would get there at 11am with sound check at 1pm. You may want to add an extra hour, just in case.

I checked the Mackie site to get info about the mixer that you are using and you may have a problem with your aux arrangements. I just looked at the site breifly and to be honest i never used the board in question so you may want to call Mackie's customer service to check on this at (800) 898-3211.
the problem I see is that with only 4 aux sends you only have the option of setting 2 of them post or pre. Normally you want your mix sends to be pre EQ and fader so the level stays the same in your moniter mix reguardless of the fader position. You may only get 2 mixes out of this board.
As for your multiple setups, what i would do is setup for your biggest (most peices) act initially and then go from there.
For the DJ with the laptop I would run 2 DI's (you can use these later for your bass and keyboard send)
I would use the same setup for drums, bass and guitars for all acts, just use long XLR's so you can move the stuff around the stage as needed.
It may be a good idea to get several different colors of electrical tape and mark your mic's with them. That way if the mic's get shifted around from the initial setup you can see what is where from your mix position. Home Depot sells packs of multi colored tape.
Also you are right about putting the EQ after the compressor, sorry..my screw up. If you have an extra compressor you may want to place it on your keys, especially if the keyboardist has a "volume" pedal in his rig. The other comp channel on the bass could fatten it up.
As for using the auto compressor feature, it depends on how it sounds to you. I've used the auto feature on my DBX's with nice results, not if you have a 400lb screaming female lead vocalist..well you may want to go manual for more control
As for the master fader level, well your input should be fine at unity but PFL every channel at soundcheck to make sure and your fader is a whole different thing, it depends on how loud you want it.

i have to run now I'll check later to see if you have any other questions. good Luck

Dan Plitt
Sound Source
San Diego, Ca.

[joaquin]

Hi Dan! Thanks for the quick answer! You are completely right about the POST FADER send for AUX3 & 4. I knew I was missing something, but with all the virtual cables running in my head right now...
What can I do to have one more monitor output? Maybe get a splitter and give the same mix to the 3rd as any of the other two!? Unfortunately the DIRECT OUTS in this console do not work if you already have any assignment on the Channels.
Don't know...I'll think of something.
Thanks again........................................Joaquin.

PS. Is It still mandatory to "ring" the Monitors, since I'll probably have to move them around between sets? also, the temperature will change many degrees from afternoon to night time...and last but not least...since I'd never done the procedure, I must admit it scares me a bit
Cheers and thanks to all Again.....................................Joaquin.

[dplitt]

Joaquin
i can identify with your last statement about being a bit scared, beleive me we've all been there at one time or another. I've been doing this sound thing for 18 years and probably have done about 1,000 gigs ranging from 50 people at a bar to over 10,000 at an outdoor event. Beleive me when I say that i have had my moments of self doubt prior to gigs but luckily 99 and 9/10 of the time things worked out.
The 2 things I've learned is that i don't know half as much as i thought i did at my last gig and what i do learn at current gigs can be used at future events. The bottom line is that people are allways learning and experimentation is part of the proccess. It sounds like you've been doing your homework so i think you'll do fine.

Ok, having said that...let's get to your questions.
There is a way on Mackie boards to get direct outs on the channels. you take a 1/4" TR and insert it "ONE" click into the channel TRS input. This taps the signal and then you can run it into a line mixer for your extra send. Mackies website has a pdf. that you can download. It's about hooking things up and explains this in detail. it's in the mixer section i beleive.
What i would do is just go with 2 mixes and be done with it. I think your biggest band is a 4 peice and i personnally know several corporate bands that average 7 to 9 peices that only require 2 mixes. plus it will make your life a whole lot easier switching out bands having less mixes.

Ringing out the monitors. You mentioned tempature changes, that wont have any effect. The only time tempature is a major facture is when your doing a big event and your setting delays between running remote stacks (speaker collums). temp and humidity will affect the delay times between stacks since sound travels a bit slower in warm humid air.
Just position your moniters correctly and you'll be OK. Monitor position depends on the mic. type. For standard cardoids like a SM58 make sure make sure that your monitor wedge is directly behind the "back" of your mic or if your standing at the mic the floor wedge should be directly oppisite you or at the 12 o'clock.
If your using a hypercardoid like a BETA 58 the polar pattern is a bit different and you'll get the best gain having the wedge at either the 11 or 1 o'clock position oppisite you as your standing at the mic.
For a quick dial in, turn down your mains and slowly raise your aux send untill you get a slight feedback at this point if you dont have an EQ on the send then back it down a bit untill the feedback stops. If you have a EQ on that send start notching it untill the feedback stops then repeat the proccess 2 more times. the offending freq. in your monitors are usually in the 600 to 3000 Khz range.
Well gotta go, good luck and i'm sure everything will be fine. Sorry bout the spelling but I rushed this out.

Dan Plitt
Sound Source
San Diego, Ca.

[PapillonIrl]

Originally Posted by joaquin

Hello!! Thank you so much for the detailed answers!! The most fundamental basics are cleared out...Thanks!! I think that I'm learning a lot!!
I'm sorry that I did not answer before, but was, as Dan mentioned, (welcome to the board!) studying the console Manual.

As Info.:
-This is going to be outside, only one offending wall at back of the "room" but in around a 120' angle relative to the stage, and relatively far...I think that shouldn't be much of an issue...we'll see.
-The Gear is all rental and it looks a bit abused...so I hope everything works. I'll have an assistant, from the rental company, so I should be pretty much covered with Help.
-the show consists of 5 acts.
1. DJ, with laptop plus Live drums.
2. Rock Trio, bass, guit, drums, 2 vox.
3. Rock quartet, bass, 2 guit, drums, 2 vox.
4. Alternative pop, synth bass, Keybords, Guitar, drums, 2 vox
5. Rock Trio, bass, guitar, drums, 1Vox.

-I'll be there arond 11am, soundcheck should be around 1pm, show start at 9pm. 30min per band, but plenty of time in between for other activities going inside the complex.
-I'll bring my cable tester, a D112 for the Kick, a couple of 57s, My radial JDI DI, and some backup cables..just in case. The Rental have everything, but they only have a CAD drum mic set, that I do not know...so I thought... They also have a couple of Octava condenser mics that I'll use for OHs.

-I'll run a snake with a 16ch XLR inputs from the stage, and I hope that I'll have all racks around my mixing position (around the same distance between speakers a bit to the left of the center)

Questions & Toughts!!
- The Mackie, has 4 AUX sends. I'm planning on using 1 & 2 for monitors, for I'll have the ability to send some reverb to that signals. AUX sends 3 and 4 do not have that benefit, but I need at least 3 monitors on stage (one for lead, one for backvox/Guitar/ and one for Drummer) So I'm planning on just use a dry signal from AUX SEND 3...for the drummer!? that should be OK no?

Watch the pre/post fader switches here, monitor should be pre fader, reverb probably post.

Originally Posted by joaquin

AUX send 4 will go MONO into a reverb and came back stereo into AUX Returns 1. L.-R. .......I'm going to skip the usual(!?) Delay FX and make my life a bit easier.

If you have a couple of channels free, you could return the reverb here. That way you can both eq the return and send it to the monitor mix. You can also PFL and mute effects return easily.

Originally Posted by joaquin

-I'll patch the Master EQ in my MAIN INSERTas you told me, but I thought that I'll put it "after" the MASTER COMPRESSOR, so this one will not mess with my EQ balance...does this make any sense?

I would do this the opposite way. You compressor shouldn't mess with the EQ balance, and IMO opinion there is no point in the compressor reacting to freqs you are cutting anyway. I know some FOH guys differ on this though.

Originally Posted by joaquin

-I'll use the LOW CUT(75HZ 18db/octave) as suggested by you in all channels but the Kick and Bass...may be I'll leave it out for some of the DJ programming.

- Acording to the Mixer's Manual, the console gives it's best performance aroun "U" Unity levels. What should be in your opinion my MASTER fader initial position?

-I'd like to have compressors as inserts for: Kick, Snare, Toms(2), Bass, Voxes and one stereo for my Main Insert. My selection is limited to what they have:
1x dbx266 2channels, 1x bheringer ComposerMDX2600 2ch, 1x Alesis 3630 2ch, 1x Bheringer MDX400 4ch.
What should be the best way to distribute this across the mentioned channels? I do not know any of them, so I do not have an opinion.

I wouldn't use any of these on the 2bus, they just don't sound good enough. I would just use the DBX on whatever really needed it, maybe vocals and bass. Don't forget you have people turning their instruments up and down, bands changing. If you need more compression, patch in as needed. But leave that Alesis out if possible ! Maybe you have a nicer compressor you could bring for 2-bus ?

Originally Posted by joaquin

-What are the starting points standards (if they exist) for Compressor's Ratios, thresholds, attack and releases for the before mentioned instruments/situation? what do you think of the "AUTOMATIC" feature that many of this units have for attack and release? is it any good?

That can work fine if you find yourself in the situation above and NEED dynamic control. Ratios 4:1 to 8:1, up to 12:1 in hardcore screamo emergencies. Threshold will vary obviously.

Originally Posted by joaquin

-I'm going to do as you told me and go MONO.I'm planning on using SUB1 for the OHs, SUB2 for the toms and HiHat, SUB3 for Guitars, SUB4 for Voxes. The Kick, snare and Bass I'll send straight to the L.-R. MASTER MIX. For the "Alt Pop band", I'll just substitute one of the Guitars Inputs for the Keyboard and the Bass line for the Bass synth....maybe I'll just use the extra inputs that I may have...what do you think is the best Buss configuration for this setup?

-Should I take notes of all the settings for each band at soundcheck?...I guess the answer is yes. Any tips on how to do it?

Got one of those phones with a camera on it, or a small digital camera ? Has worked for me,

Originally Posted by joaquin

Thank you so much once again. Your Knowledge is very much appreciated!!. Please disregard al stupid questions, for I'm trying to understand the system with only theory up to now. All your years of experience and comments are most valuable for me and all the Remote Lurkers and newbies around this Forum. Thank for your good will and patience. ......................Joaquin.

You're very welcome.

DO ring out the monitors. If you don't, wou will be plagued by feedback issues as the band ask you to increase the foldback volume during the set. Make sure you have a good 31-band graphic for each monitor mix. This is essential.

Ringing out monitors is described well above, so I won't go into it again, but DO IT !!!

Nathan

[PeterV]

Pardon me if this has already been addressed elsewhere in this thread.

If you are using a Mackie CR1604 vlz (and perhaps other models), and the board has not been modified, there may be another issue with the aux sends.

The prefader aux send on the channel strips (1 and 2) is post insert, post hpf, but pre channel strip EQ. This means that any changes you make to the channel EQ will not be reflected in the monitor signal, only in the mains. If the singer says there is a lot of mud in his or her vocal in the monitor you cannot change it with the channel strip. You would have to use the 31 band or parametric EQ you are using for the master aux send. That change would affect all of that aux send and may not be what you need for other inputs or instruments.

Consult the block diagram of the board in question in the manual.

You can test the signal path during the set up for the event.

If you have extra inputs, you can use xlr-y cables to split the signal: one channel for monitors and one channel for mains if necessary.

Some performers are touchier than others about their monitor sound. I've had trouble in the past with the above issue.

Peter

[joaquin]

Thank you everybody for all the Info! "When it rains it pours", and had to do a short notice short film mix today...could not review my material for tomorrow. I'm going to hit the sack right now, and confront the beast with a good attitud and try as everyone told me, To have Fun! I'll post once all is done.
Thanks one more time..............................Joaquin.

[joaquin]

Hello Fellow Remoters!! The show was a succes!!...well wasn't really that simple.
I got there the earliest that my eye's lids would permit..12:00 I got to the place, and the Manager and my supposed assistant, was hanging from the ceiling of the place doing some lighting. He told me "Hi...everything is outside and ready to go" Men I was like Yhea!! I went outside, and first of all, Yesterday was probably the coldest day in Miami's History. Add to that the most unforgiving wind blowing. I see, that I have the stage is in place and a very cool riser for my position. The speakers too were in place and...that was it. I had hunreds of tangled cables all gear was unhooked and un-powered. The stage snake, and power was supposedly on it's way... Fortunately I had a couple of good friends, musicians, that decided to help me out.
First I separeted all the XLRs that I needed, selecting the best looking ones. Then I proceed to hook the speakers to their respective powers. Then I went to my Mixing position and hook all the powers chords from the gear that I was going to use. Since the snake & Power was not there yet, we put the drumset up, and mic it. I used my D112 for the Kick, a SM57 for the snare, a SM58 for the HiHat(!?) another D112 for the floorTom, a SM57 for the Rack Tom, and the Small pencil Octavas for OHs...Wind is not their friend!! and I did not have windscreens.
Finally the snake, Power, and full backline showed up and also many band members eager to do soundcheck and go home.
I Hook all the cables to the snake, distrubute the DIs Hook everything back at the Mixer, and when I started to hook the Compressors that I was going to use...no insert cables in the house!! ...call home, and get my Girlfriend to bring me some...describing TRS, Tip&Rings splits and TS cables on the phone to someone that do not know them can be pretty confusing!? When I'm going to hook the Sends for monitors and Main Mix, the mixer has 1/4 balanced outputs, and the snake had Female XLR connectors...call the Assistant that was still hanging lights somewhere else, and ask him for the adaptors...he only had 3. What the hell, I had my Main Mix out and 1 send for monitors.
When I finally got my insert cables...the lengthy ones weren't enough... I started reducing my arsenal, and end up with: The dbx266xl, one channel for each of the most important voxes. The Alesis 3630 one channel for Kick and one for the bass, and the Behringer composer for my master Buss.
I could not hook the Master's, nor the Monitor's EQ. Well...Rock'n Roll!! I did a line check, and one channel of the snake was dead, one SM57 also, and a couple of Mic cables. After this was sorted out. I hook my Main out from the stage box to the crossover box and form there to the Subwoofer Power and the Mains Power. Then I tested the Speaker system with an ipoad hokked to my DIs on 15 & 16 and Sound came out!!.... only no mid highs!?...the crossover, fixed it and man...it felt good.
One of my friends assisting, got carried away, when he found a bounch of active mackies and we setup 4of them for monitors in a chain, all positioned with care in relation with directionality, mics and pick up patterns. I went back to my Mixing position, and did as I was told, to get all my levels with the biggest band. Very usefull system has the mackie for that pourpose (I forgot to mention, that my notes for the gig and manuals resume was blown away by the wind and no where to be found). Once I got my levels, I offered earplugs for the band members and tough I did not have EQs for the monitors, I wanted to test the maximun level I could send without feedback. Some accepted them, some used their fingers, and I went for it...my resulting Headroom was more than enough!! I also limited the amount of reverb sent to them...thought that that would help.
Once I got the band sounding pretty good and everybody was happy with the only monitor mix...I had to get ready for the first act, who was going to use 3 Keybord.
I left all the backline in place, and use my extra channels to acomodate the Keys. I used the Bass DI for the Bass Keybord. This band sounded great!! It lifted up my spirit and though, the cold windy night, sort of scared the audience, was a great start!!
After that came the DJ Drummer. That was easy, just setup a stereo line and the drum sound, (wich I liked a lot) was always a work in progress. I must say that the 3630 behaved very good under the circumstances and my inexperience. The main issue were the OH and the wind. I had to mute between songs and take them out when the noise was unbearable. The SM58 and a litle EQ did a very reasonable job!!
Well, after that, one of the bigger bands, became at the last minute, just a singer playing Guitar, and a guest Vocalist for a song. Men, sounded pretty good! simple, allowed me to tailor the EQ for the singer nicely. The only problem here was the guest, who, avidly, grabbed the mic and started walking the stage...first and only feedback spill of the night. was controlled fast, but, since I had only one monitor mix, probably the singer, felt also the drop in monitor level. Any way he thanked me truly afterward for the great sound he had...
Next, I had the Main Band, a Psychedelic Punk Rock quartet. Everything went cool, though, I had some problems compensating the level and EQ of one of the guitars respect to the other. Here, was the only moment that I missed a bit Stereo!! but well, things, thru EQ&Level worked out just fine, and I also, felt, that after a couple of songs, the ear started to sort of compress/accommodate the sound and things started to fall in place....what do you think?
The Last band, was the Rock Trio. That was....the last. Though sounded very well, the bass player had terrible fret peaks, and the Alesis wasn't able to handle them properly, plus the dreaded sound of it coming thru the line and the stage amp was just awful. How do you deal with this sounds? Also, my gain staging was adding more and more thru the night, and was running out of Headroom by the end of it...my bad. Any way, the band and the audience, had a lot of wine by this time, and really enjoy the show...I guess that that's the main Idea, so I was really Happy and satisfied with my work by the end of the night.
I rapped all my things, and put all mics back in their case. Unpowered all gear, and make a neat pile with the cables that I used. Thanked the owner for the Equipment, and had all the Rum and Cocke that I preferred not to consume during operation of voltages! stike
Was a Great experience. It felt like puting a studio together, recording and mixing many different acts in a day. I said recording, for I only missed the rec button. The console did not give that as an easy option, so I could not acomplish it this time...next.
Things that I learned:
-it's a huge responsability to run sound for live acts, you need a straight head and a really good understanding of signal flow, for problems have to be figured out very fast.
-Channel EQ is your friend, and good compression can really fatten up an other wise thin signals. ( I hope next time I'll have better compressors)
-Better be early for setup, and make sure ahead of time that you have all the cables necessary for the job.
-Know the gear you are going to use ahead of time, and read all the manuals.
-get a set list with the program schedule, Bands & instrumantation well ahead of the gig.
-Though, musicians and a couple of friends came over to my position and told me that they liked it a lot and all, mostly your job is a transparent one. I you do it right, everybody has a great time and nobody gives a damn about you, If you do it wrong...everybody is on your case. That's why I said is transparent...if it's clean, nobody sees it, if it's dirty...
-Though, yesterday I only had a couple of cases, I know from previous experinces how annoying is the Mr nobody who always has an opinion of how some signal should sound while his head is inside the toilet. It's, to say the least, distracting. I must say, that as well, I recieved some great feedback about stuff that I wasn't paying attention by trusty musicians.
-Good Instruments make all the difference. A usless snare, won't sound good with all the EQ in the world.
-Good monitoring for the musicians is key for a great performance....I'm a musician...now I have both perspectives!
-Gearslutz and the Remote Forum ROCKS!!!!
Thank you so much. Great Information in this thread!!!
Cheers..................................Joaquin.