Equipment Advice

[etiefenthaler]

http://www.flutemusic.ch/IMG_1366.JPG

http://www.flutemusic.ch/IMG_1365_1.JPG

[Nobilmente]

Originally Posted by meltemi

Agreed. Mk5 is a compromise, but far from being the worst possible. And I should have written close to Mk2S instead of Mk2 and close to Mk4, instead of not deliberately leading to the misunderstanding, that the Mk5 was identical to the other capsules. Sorry.
The ideal ist still to have one pair of omnis and one pair of cardioid (if the budget permits).

Hi Meltemi

I too am a Schoeps MK5 fan, and do not think in terms of there being any compromise when used as either cardiod or omni. The published cardiod pattern is tighter than the Mk4 and the very slight lift of both patterns is really useful. Partly because the switching is mechanical, I don't feel that there is a compromise.

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Nobilmente

Hi Meltemi

I too am a Schoeps MK5 fan, and do not think in terms of there being any compromise when used as either cardiod or omni. The cardiod pattern is tighter than the Mk4 and the very slight, (in between other pattern) lift of both patterns is really useful. Partly because the switching is mechanical, I don't feel that the compromise anticipated with some other microphones, to be the case with the Mk5.

IMHO the Schoeps Mk5 unquestionably is a high end mic. It gives you a top class omni and a top class cardioid with a single capsule. That's why I originally suggested it as the solution for someone, who wanted to cover the vast majority of his needs with a single pair of SDC's (see post #26 in this thread).

But the characteristics of an Mk5 are not exactly the ones of an Mk2S (omni) and an Mk4 (cardioid) (see posts #31 from sonare, #32). That's what I meant with "compromise".

And then, in comes the price factor (Mk5 capsule vs. Mk2S plus Mk4 capsule)(see posts #33 from RobAnderson and #34).

I hope, this helped to put things back into perspective.

[Nobilmente]

I understand what you mean and thank you for explaining further.

The Mk5 is simply being an Mk5 and not trying to be any of the other capsules, and you are right it is a great choice for anyone needing the flexibilty of both omni and cardiod, but above and beyond that it is very often my choice when needing either of the those patterns.

[etiefenthaler]

Hi

have some new files to listen. I know - should have used the hpf - next step is "denoising" the chairs.
Chain:
2xschoeps cmc5 mk4
2xschoeps cmc6 mk2H
2 akg 414 buls tl middle side
Focusrite isa828 (cardioid - eight) (had the dav bg1 last week- sold this to a friend and bougt the dav bg2 - will get this next week)

mytek8x192 converter
reaper
reverb bricasti m7 large&dark preset

Fluteensemble
http://flutemusic.ch/debussymk4.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/debussymk2H.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/debussyakg414buls%20ms.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/debussymk2H%20rev.wav

american ethnic flute/kontrabassflute

http://flutemusic.ch/ethno2mk4.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/ethno2mk2H.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/ethno2akg414bulsms.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/ethno2mk2Hm7.wav


solo wooden concert flute with fluteensemble accomp.

http://flutemusic.ch/hassemk4.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/hassemk2H.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/hasseakg414bulsms.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/hasse2mk2Hm7.wav

[etiefenthaler]

Hi

recorded cello while practicing
same config as above:

http://flutemusic.ch/cello2mk4.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cello2mk2H.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cello2akg414bulsms.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cello2mk2Hrev.wav




http://flutemusic.ch/cellomk4.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cellomk2H.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/celloakg414bulsms.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cellomk2Hrev.wav




http://flutemusic.ch/cello3mk4.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cello3mk2H.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cello3akg414bulsms.wav

http://flutemusic.ch/cello3mk2Hrev.wav

[didier.brest]

I listened to the flute ensemble and found the best stereo image and the more you-are-here sound from the MK4.
The better time alignment of both channels got by removing about 1 ms at the beginning of the R channel of the MK2H track results in a more centered sound stage and a nicer listening to my ears.
Thank you for sharing.

[etiefenthaler]

@ didier: 1 ms means a 3.4 mm decreacse of spacing.
maybe the aprox. 40 cm AB width was to high.

I have to check out different distances to the ensemble and also different AB spacings.

I read some interesting posts belonging the four mic phased array(tony faulkner)
Does someone have technical descriptions in addition to those on sengpielaudio.com ?

erich

[sunflute]

Hello,

So what mic did you end up getting?

And how do you like your Dr680? (I am thinking of getting one).

Have you tried it with ribbons (I am curious about its noise performance with ribbon microphones)?

Thank you
Peace
Marco

[Flute-Picc]

Originally Posted by sunflute

Hello,

So what mic did you end up getting?

And how do you like your Dr680? (I am thinking of getting one).

Have you tried it with ribbons (I am curious about its noise performance with ribbon microphones)?

Thank you
Peace
Marco

Hey Marco,

I ended up getting the 4090s. I used them through a BG1 to the 680. I thought they did a very nice job on the piano but just an OK job on the flute. However, due to a lengthy renovation where I was planning to record most of the time, I ended up having to do some recording in a super-live cathedral. Needless to say, the 4090s were not the microphones for that.

A few months ago, I came into some unexpected money. Thanks to the terrible and dangerous influence of Gearslutz, I used it to upgrade my equipment. I got a pair each of 8040s and 8020s. I'm still getting to know them, but so far I think the 8020s do a very nice job on the flute. I'm less enthused with the 8040s, which I find record the flute a bit more harshly. This is most apparent in the 3rd octave, which is noticeably thinner on the 8040s.

As far as ribbons go, I got a pair of r84s, which I cannot speak about highly enough. I know people warned me about ribbons on flute and their not understanding that approach. I still have much to learn about recording, and I'm sure there is something I am not hearing. Maybe flutists just listen/find important a different part of the sound? I don't know. Whatever the case may be, I love the flute on these ribbons. I have used them primarily as spots so far, but the next time I record somewhere nice, I plan to try them in MS with the 8020s flanking in AB. I have high hopes for that combination.

As for the 680, I have not used it with the ribbons at all. I got a UFX to be able to integrate a laptop along with a backup HD output and for the possibility of more channels. I am considering selling the 680, as I really don't use it anymore. The only thing I'm considering is how much more conveniently portable it is. If I do sell it, I'll be sure to let you know, in case you are interested.

I have a bit of time off right now, so my flute is at Brannen getting serviced. When I get it back, I'll make a couple AB clips for you of one r84 going straight into the 680 and the other going into a TRP preamp and then the 680. I would expect the noise level to be lower on the TRP, as it seems deathly quiet no matter the gain, but I will be curious to see how the 680 compares. (as a side note, I HIGHLY recommend the AEA TRP as a solution to the gain requirements of a passive ribbon).

I would post some clips of stuff I've recorded, but all the flute/picc stuff can't be posted for another couple months. All I have are the 8040s on some trumpet/piano stuff from a recital I recorded. Something tells me that really isn't what you were looking for.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.

[sunflute]

Wow, It seems you really upgraded all your gear. It brings back wonderful memories of all the gear I tried and owned over the years. Right now I have a minimalist setup (C&T Naked Eye Rosswelites into Sound Devices 702) but I am thinking of selling the SD702 and getting the DR680 for a couple more channels.

I've used the older version of the 8020 (MKH 20) and was really pleased with the results (I practically recorded an entire album using that setup).

The R84 is wonderful on flute, specially with the TRP (both of which I've tried)

In any case, I would be really curious to hear/see if the Dr680 can sound quiet enough at max gain with the R84. Since I mostly use the C&T ribbon pair, I need a recorder that can stay quiet. So no rush but whenever you have the time, if you could post some clips (or your opinion) that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

BTW, do I know you from the flute world?

Thanks again,
Peace
Marco

Originally Posted by Flute-Picc

Hey Marco,

I ended up getting the 4090s. I used them through a BG1 to the 680. I thought they did a very nice job on the piano but just an OK job on the flute. However, due to a lengthy renovation where I was planning to record most of the time, I ended up having to do some recording in a super-live cathedral. Needless to say, the 4090s were not the microphones for that.

A few months ago, I came into some unexpected money. Thanks to the terrible and dangerous influence of Gearslutz, I used it to upgrade my equipment. I got a pair each of 8040s and 8020s. I'm still getting to know them, but so far I think the 8020s do a very nice job on the flute. I'm less enthused with the 8040s, which I find record the flute a bit more harshly. This is most apparent in the 3rd octave, which is noticeably thinner on the 8040s.

As far as ribbons go, I got a pair of r84s, which I cannot speak about highly enough. I know people warned me about ribbons on flute and their not understanding that approach. I still have much to learn about recording, and I'm sure there is something I am not hearing. Maybe flutists just listen/find important a different part of the sound? I don't know. Whatever the case may be, I love the flute on these ribbons. I have used them primarily as spots so far, but the next time I record somewhere nice, I plan to try them in MS with the 8020s flanking in AB. I have high hopes for that combination.

As for the 680, I have not used it with the ribbons at all. I got a UFX to be able to integrate a laptop along with a backup HD output and for the possibility of more channels. I am considering selling the 680, as I really don't use it anymore. The only thing I'm considering is how much more conveniently portable it is. If I do sell it, I'll be sure to let you know, in case you are interested.

I have a bit of time off right now, so my flute is at Brannen getting serviced. When I get it back, I'll make a couple AB clips for you of one r84 going straight into the 680 and the other going into a TRP preamp and then the 680. I would expect the noise level to be lower on the TRP, as it seems deathly quiet no matter the gain, but I will be curious to see how the 680 compares. (as a side note, I HIGHLY recommend the AEA TRP as a solution to the gain requirements of a passive ribbon).

I would post some clips of stuff I've recorded, but all the flute/picc stuff can't be posted for another couple months. All I have are the 8040s on some trumpet/piano stuff from a recital I recorded. Something tells me that really isn't what you were looking for.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Flute-Picc]

Originally Posted by sunflute

Wow, It seems you really upgraded all your gear. It brings back wonderful memories of all the gear I tried and owned over the years. Right now I have a minimalist setup (C&T Naked Eye Rosswelites into Sound Devices 702) but I am thinking of selling the SD702 and getting the DR680 for a couple more channels.

I've used the older version of the 8020 (MKH 20) and was really pleased with the results (I practically recorded an entire album using that setup).

The R84 is wonderful on flute, specially with the TRP (both of which I've tried)

In any case, I would be really curious to hear/see if the Dr680 can sound quiet enough at max gain with the R84. Since I mostly use the C&T ribbon pair, I need a recorder that can stay quiet. So no rush but whenever you have the time, if you could post some clips (or your opinion) that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

BTW, do I know you from the flute world?

Thanks again,
Peace
Marco

Nah, I have nothing to do with Flute World other than ordering too much stuff from them.

I'll be sure to get you some r84/680 clips when I get a chance. Like I said, that'll probably be two weeks or so, but I'll post them in here when I get them. If you want to hear anything else, let me know.

[sunflute]

Hey, sorry I didn't mean Flute World, the company but the Flute Community at large.

Anyways, thank you so much and do keep me posted if you decide to sell your DR680 because I might be on the market for one soon.

Peace.

Originally Posted by Flute-Picc

Nah, I have nothing to do with Flute World other than ordering too much stuff from them.

I'll be sure to get you some r84/680 clips when I get a chance. Like I said, that'll probably be two weeks or so, but I'll post them in here when I get them. If you want to hear anything else, let me know.

[Flute-Picc]

OK, Marco, I was able to make some samples at a local church. There are some flute samples and some piano samples (kindly played by my friend who is also a flutist and not a pianist). There wasn't anyone there to turn off the air conditioning, which is extremely noisy in there. I think that's the majority of what you hear in these samples. I'm going to try to get over there again this coming week when someone is around who knows how to turn it off.

In the first several samples, I recorded two r84s in AB about 4 inches apart. One went straight into the DR680 while the other went through a TRP preamp and then into the 680. In the later samples, I set the two mics up in mid-side and recorded both straight into the 680 so you could see what a real recording using only the 680s pres/converters would sound like. There's no EQ or anything on these; all I did was just split them into clips. MP3s are 320s. I'll link the wavs in the next post.

Hope this helps some. I'll post more when I get a chance to get some that are free of A/C noise so it's easier to hear what, if any, noise the 680 is adding to the chain.

[Flute-Picc]

WAVS:

flute 1 dr680
flute 1 trp
moonlight dr680
moonlight trp
waltz dr680
waltz trp
flute bach m-s
flute bizet m-s
moonlight m-s
waltz m-s

[sunflute]

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. It's incredibly helpful. I've just listened to the first two tracks and while the TRP is obviously more present, the dr680 doesn't sound bad at all, in fact it sounds quite nice. I will keep listening and let you know my thoughts. Thank you Flute-Picc

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