FOH, Monitor & Recording System...$20K??

[joaquin]

Hello Remoters!!
A client of mine, wants me to put together a System able to Amplify and Record Live Bands in a Warehouse for TV Air at a later date. He'd also like it to be Protools based, though I do not think there's enough budget for it...The system should be able to manage 24inputs simultaneously. The other point, is that the Budget is restricted to $20,000 and Gear should be preferably new!
So far, I thinking:
A) Mics:
4x Shure sm57 $360
4x Shure cm58 $400
1x AKG D112 $200
1x Shre sm81 $350
2x AKG451 $1200
1x Audix D6 $200

B) Console:
Mackie Onyx 2480 $4000

C)Speakers:(House)
2x JBL MPro MP225 $1260
1x JBL MPro MP418SP $1380
(monitors)
4x JBL JRX112M $1120

D) Power:
(house)
1x Crown CE2000 $650
(monitors)
2x Samson Servo 600 $500

E) EQ:
1x dbx 1231 $350
4x dbx 131 $600

F) Compressors:
3x dbx 160A $1200
3x dbx 1066 $1200

G) FX:
1x Lexicon MPX 550 $400

H) RECORDING GEAR
1x MOTU HD-192 $1800
1x MOTU HD192 I/O $1500
1x MOTU Digital Performer 4.6 $500


This gives me a grand Total of $19,170
I'm still going to need cables, DIs, stands, a smaller mixer for the monitors, probably a reliable snake and a splitter, racks...not to mention the acustics in the place, but there should be a different budget for that!?
I do not know much about Live sound and the better options there are...Help in the matter is much appreciated!
The place is not rented yet, but shouldn't be very big. Think MTV unpluged reduced.....Again, this is for TV and Post.

I'd like to have a console with direct outs from the pre-amp stage...the Mackie, gets out after the Insert point...

What do you think is not necessary from this list?
What do you think I'm missing??
What is a total NO NO from what I presented?
What do you think about the MOTU...is it reliable?? (they have the computer-G4 Dual)
I like the Idea of using a Hard disk recorder like the Alesis ADAT HD24...what do you think?

Any Help is most welcome .........................Joaquin.

PS. The company already have a Digi002. If I get something like the:RME ADI-8 DS I'd have 16 inputs and save some money.
The performances would be very different, from a DJ and a couple of Rappers, to full blown Rock, Latin, etc Bands...do you think that 16tracks would be fine, or I'd be pushing it to much?
Thanks again..................Joaquin.

[ExistanceMusic]

Is this going to be a long term thing (1 year or more) or is it just a short term production? If it is just for a short term thing, I would very, very strongly suggest you search out a rental company and speak to them. The JBL MPro stuff is not that flash, and for 20k, you would be able to hire signifigantly better stuff.
Also, I see you've realised that you don't have cables, multicores or splitters in there...these are not thing you account for in the end! they are expensive! Even if you do end up buying a PA, you may still want to rent the splitter at least.

Most rental companies will do very good deals on long-term rentals for venues and production companies. There are also signifigant tax advantages to renting as well (over here there are, anyway).

Anyway, enough from me. I'm not too good with prices, I'm sure some other folks on here will be able to help out a little better than me.

[joaquin]

Thank you Jesse!
The instalation should last at least a Year. Very good Idea about renting the mayor snakes and splitters. For the mic lines, I learned how to make cables, so I may get a better deal buying bulk and soldering them my self...may see some $$ for the job and still get a better deal for them. If I were to buy, what speakers would you recommend in the power and budget range of the JBL I proposed?
Thanks....................Joaquin.

[dasbin]

If this is for a significant audience, I would recommend if at all possible to spend a greater portion of your budget on the FOH speakers. Mind you I'm not sure what "warehouse" means in this context - acoustically so bad that it wouldn't matter, perhaps?

In any case, if you have a nice enough DAW, you could potentially skip the console (just get enough pres), the EQ, the reverb and the compressors.. do the live mix in the DAW with latency set as low as possible, and use plugs for effects. That would save you a fair chunk of change to spend elsewhere, like the speakers and mics.

[joaquin]

Thanks Bradley!
The warehouse hasn't been rented yet, but the acoustis are going to be treated...mostly with drapes and there's going to be some sort of scenario with "stuff" for TV looks wich may give some diffusion. The Mixer would give me analog realtime sonic manipulation, which I think is more reliable and also procure me with 24 preamps, which in outboard gear may be a bigger budget(!?)
I'm thinking of an audience not much bigger than say 50-60 people and as much as I'd like to get a nice sounding House, the final pourpose of this is for later airing on TV...quality tracks and good monitoring for the performers are my main concern.
What speakers for the FHO would you recomend?
What DAW do you think would do the job?
Thanks........................Joaquin.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by dasbin

...In any case, if you have a nice enough DAW, you could potentially skip the console (just get enough pres), the EQ, the reverb and the compressors.. do the live mix in the DAW with latency set as low as possible, and use plugs for effects. That would save you a fair chunk of change to spend elsewhere, like the speakers and mics.

I'm thinking about this option, and this is an aproximation price wise of a solid setup IMHO:
PTHD1 list price $7995 real Value aprox $ 5500
192i/o list value $3995 real value aprox $ 3000
192 AD Expansion Card list value $1295 real value aprox $1000
Focusrite octopre $799.97
Focusrite octopre $799.97
Focusrite octopre $799.97
Focusrite OctoPre ADAT Option $199.97
DigiLink Cable, 12' $65.00
DB25-DB25 DigiSnake, 4' $65.00
DB25-DB25 DigiSnake, 4' $65.00

Snake stage to PT Pro Co RM-3208-FBX100 $929.97

TOTAL$ 13225

What do you think. I could actually do a live mix & send 8 lines to the monitor mixer (maybe thru the snake back to stage)....I'm liking the Idea

I still want to make all the cables myself, and probably, once I know the real dimensions of the actual place, I may even build a custom snake for less money!?
Any input is much appreciated.
How necessary is to have EQ for each monitor speaker in a relatively controlled environment??
I'll investigate myself, but,... in your experience, How much power (in watts) do you need in a closed enviroment per " X"square feet to maintain a relatively even aprox 100db SPL? is there a formula to reference?
Thanks.......................Joaquin.

[joaquin]

Hi. This is what I ended up sending. If any of you think that I made a mistake, plase let me know, so I can correct it. Thanks..................Joaquin.

PTHD2 list price 10,995 real Value aprox $ 7500
192i/o list value $3995 real value aprox $ 3000
192 AD Expansion Card list value $1295 real value aprox $1000
DigiLink Cable, 12' $65.00
DB25-DB25 DigiSnake, 4' $65.00
DB25-DB25 DigiSnake, 4' $65.00

TOTAL: $11,695
-----------------------------------------
Focusrite octopre $799.97
Focusrite octopre $799.97
Focusrite octopre $799.97
Focusrite OctoPre ADAT Option $199.97

TOTAL: $2,599.88
-----------------------------------------
Stage snake Pro Co SM2404FBQ-100 $539.97
Cables Redco Quad 25' XLR(f)-XLR(M) X 24 $530
Cables patching etc. aprox $300
-----------------------------------------
On-Stage Stands Mic Stand Package X 4 $400
-----------------------------------------
Radial ProDI X 4 $320
-----------------------------------------

TOTAL: $2,089.97
-----------------------------------------
Mics:
4x Shure sm57 $360
4x Shure sm58 $400
1x AKG D112 $200
1x Shre sm81 $350
2x AKG451 $1200
1x Audix D6 $200
2x Sennheiser e604 $259.98
1x Sennheiser e 602 $179.99

TOTAL: $3,149.97
-----------------------------------------
Speakers:(House)
2x JBL MPro MP225 $1260
1x JBL MPro MP418SP $1380
Speakers:(monitors)
4x JBL JRX112M $1120

TOTAL:$3760
-----------------------------------------
Power:(house)
1x Crown CE2000 $650
Power:(monitors)
2x Samson Servo 600 $500
1x Samson S•2-way crossover $119.97
2x Furman PL-8 II Power conditioners $261.94

TOTAL:$1,531.91
----------------------------------------

1x Gator GR-8L Rack $114.99
1x Gator GR-10L Rack $129.99

TOTAL:$244.98
-----------------------------------------


GRAND TOTAL:$25,071.71


Missing:
-Speakers cables