Cheap, portable audio recorder - Is the Zoom H1 my best bet?

[ruins]

Hi guys, I am looking for a very portable audio recorder that still produces high quality sounds.

I want to do simple stuff by hand with no extra equipment, such as record a baby crying, the sound of water flowing, etc etc.

Would the Zoom H1 ($99!) be fine for this?

Also, would it be suitable for throwing in my pocket and using as a voice recorder? Would be nice to kill two birds with one stone.

[jabney]

If the H1 is simply an H2 with half the mikes, then it's a no-brainer. Buy it. Depending on your age, you may want to get a strong magnifying glass, too. The option to use the wider spread of the rear-facing mikes (as opposed to the front-facing mikes) on the H2 might be worth the extra money, though.

best,

john

[John Willett]

I have heard that the H1 is much better than the H2. Certainly worth looking at.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[ebulb]

i wasnt too encouraged by the H2 when i looked at it a while back.. Nothing to do with audio quality but the actual construction of it left me thinking it would break very easily.. Especially the battery compartment at the back.. Everything is cheap and plastic and made in china these days so i dont expect it to be bomb proof but it was worse than i had expected.

I ended up getting the edirol because the casing seemed much more solid.. Its been good quality also but it is about double the cost of the H2 i think.. not sure about H1 but if its like the H2 id check the construction quality.. even if its $99 you dont want it breaking on a small knock..

[John Willett]

Don't compare the H1 to the H2, it's a *very* different beastie.

I have read somewhere that it is quieter than the R-09HR - so try it in it's own right and don't go by what the older models were like.

The H4n is much better than the old H4, so I would expect the same sort of thing for the H1.

Yes, it is a small and inexpensive recorder, but I would still give it a try-out.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[ABBA]

There is a problem with a huge batch of Zoom H1 draining batteries.
When the problem is fixed I'll buy one myself.

ABBA

[jabney]

Originally Posted by ebulb

...the actual construction of it left me thinking it would break very easily.. Especially the battery compartment at the back.. ... if its like the H2 id check the construction quality.. even if its $99 you dont want it breaking on a small knock..

The plastic case seems reasonably rugged: once the two hatches (battery and media card) are closed. The battery hatch does not have to be closed for the unit to operate, so a piece of gaff would probably work OK until you could procure a replacement. Or until you had a chance to Crazy Glue the hatch cover back in one piece.

A cast magnesium or machined billet aluminum case would probably look beautiful - until the first couple of scratches. And you still wouldn't be protecting the display (which you do need until you learn the menu). Nor would a metal case do very much to protect the controls - at least until you get up into Nagra-type quality. The built-in microphones on the H2 are behind pretty tough feeling metal mesh screens, and the overall shape of the H2 seems designed to avoid catching on sleeves and stray cables. And if it does take a tumble, the plastic case helps keep the weight down, which should lessen the chance of show-stopping damage from a fall.

And there are no moving parts inside.

best,

john

[Ozpeter]

See previous discussion centering on this device at Cheap but good quality field recorder with mics

[ebulb]

Originally Posted by jabney

The plastic case seems reasonably rugged: once the two hatches (battery and media card) are closed.

Do you mean the case for the H2 ? If so i would have to disagree.. When i looked at it i thought it was about the cheapest item (in audio terms) i had seen in a long time.. It might work ok, i just think a field recorder should be made to be reasonably tough as its going to be carried around a lot and its easy for things to get knocked. I dont like the idea of battery clips breaking and needing gaff in order to keep using it down the track..

[king2070lplaya]

Hey Ruins,

Sony PCM-M10. It's twice the price of the zoom..... but 10 times the quality!

I exaggerate, but I would seriously consider this guy over the zoom. I've had quite a few friends who got the Zooms just because they were uber cheap and easy, mostly jazz and classical guys looking for some quick reference recordings of lessons/practicing/gigs. I found listening to them that they worked for picking out notes in a solo, things like that, but as far as sound quality goes they were pretty ugly sounding. After doing quite a bit of research, I got the Sony and couldn't be happier with the sound quality, and the feature set.

So I guess i'd say the zoom'll work fine, they can take a licking (in a trombone case) and still work ok, but if you want a some serious tone and you have an extra 100 the Sony is a really killer deal. Just thought I'd give you an alternative.

[petsematary]

I've never tried a handheld recorder with built-in mics that has sounded good. Why? Because of the hand noise. And because you need special-made fur to cover the mics. If you don't have that, all recordings made outdoors are gonna sound like shit, distorted by wind noise. Really, any handheld voice/singing mic into pretty much any recorder will sound 3x better than a doped-up dictaphone.

[Ozpeter]

Really, any handheld voice/singing mic into pretty much any recorder will sound 3x better than a doped-up dictaphone.

Hardly pocketable, and not stereo. Many of these small recorders come with a windshield, but if not, they are not really an exotic article to purchase.

[Bob V]

The Zoom H2 has been useful for everthing from guitar and cello lessons to school concerts. Since audio memory is tricky, it was really useful shopping for a cello in different stores and then playing back all the choices later at home. Same thing for guitar saddle material - you can do your own blind listening tests for Tusq vs. bone vs. buffalo horn. And yes, you can make snapshot recordings of the cat purring. If you don't need the four-mic capability (narrow and wide pattern options) the new small H1 might work well for you.

As for handling noise, it comes with a little base to stand it on a table (which you really don't need, it will stand on its own) and a mic clip adapter. With the adapter you can put in on a mic stand, and you can further isolate it with a shock-mount mic clip (not the fancy birdcages for condenser mics, but just a mic clip that has a little rubber ring to isolate it so footsteps don't transmit through the mic stand base). If you need to, the manual recommends that you hold the mic adapter in a gloved hand and this actually does help to reduce handling noise. Wind noise, I'm not that experienced with, but it seems to be a difficult thing no matter what mic you're using.

Perhaps the detractors were surprised by how light the unit is, but that doesn't mean it's cheaply constructed. As far as being pocket-able, the H2 almost fits in a pocket comfortably; I usually carry it in a small zippered bag meant for a digital camera (there's an outer pouch that's nice for a spare set of rechargeable batteries and a flash memory card).

While I do recommend it highly, the Zoom H2 isn't convenient as a dictaphone because you can't pause a recording or restart easily. When you stop, it takes a moment to process and when you start recording again it will start a new file. For handheld voice recording that someone is going to transcribe, you'll want a rewind/replay/pause/record feature as you're making the dictation, and at the same time you don't need anywhere near the sound quality that you can get with a Zoom.

Just like boats, you don't know what you want until you've had one for awhile. If I had to do it all over again, I'd get the less expensive H1 which was not yet available when I got my H2. Either one is a very good value.

[GYMusic]

I tried a few before I settled on a Sony D-50. I liked it so much, I bought an M-10. Sound wise, they sound pretty much identical. The D-50 has about 3dB more gain. You can get the M-10 for $200 delevered. Both are excellent recorders.

[Ozpeter]

The M-10 omni mics are a bit of a shame, otherwise it's indeed a nice solid device (especially at the price).

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

The M-10 omni mics are a bit of a shame, otherwise it's indeed a nice solid device (especially at the price).

The mics are supposed to be quiet at any rate. Something like 17dB
A-weighted self noise.

I heard one or two recordings with it and the stereo imaging is
pretty weak, I imagine because of the close-spaced omnis.
I wouldn't say the imaging is non-existant but it seemed
rather undefined.

But have a listen for yourself to some samples. Some people are
happy with it for what it is considering the modest price.

[joelpatterson]

The Sony PCM D-50 in action: a jazz-tinged "Smoke on the Water," hot little combo in a cool room on a Friday night:

Smoke... - Keith Pray Soul Jazz Revival.mp3 - 4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download

Two absolute musts with this wonderful little unit:

Windscreen-- even swaying it side to side will get you all kindsa nasty "schrrrish's" -- I think for $40 or so you can get commercial ones-- I sewed one out of fake fur and an elastic hair tie, and it cost me something like $1.50.

Some kind of mount-- handling noise is excruciating, so a little tripod (it's got a camera-style threaded hole in the bottom) is mandatory. I took a clip to fasten a camera onto the edge of a table and affixed a rubberized/wooden spoon to it, so I can carry it around at will.

The day doesn't go by that I don't marvel at this thing-- it's extraordinary and nearly unbelievable, you're walking around with a battery powered thing the size of a cigarette case that'll give you hours of 96/24 audio-- mics remind me of the original E-100 electrets, crisp, clear and dramatic-- if we'd have had these when we were kids-- history would have been different, I'm telling you!

[GYMusic]

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

The M-10 omni mics are a bit of a shame, otherwise it's indeed a nice solid device (especially at the price).

Do you own one to post up some sound files for reference?

[Ozpeter]

Yes, I own one, but I've barely used it with the built in mics as I'm a stereo image freak and they irritate me more than somewhat.

Over on the TapersSection forums there was some discussion of the M10 stereo imaging and people posted some samples which I then took the liberty of tweaking and reposting using Matthew Lindsay NCL Phase EQ, a high quality 6 band equalizer VST effect plug-in for Windows PC ("Phase EQ" vst which uses MS techniques to apply eq to mid and side independently).

Sony PCM-M10 (Part 2) may bring up the right page of the thread. But I'll quote the post here -

Very interesting sample, tardis71. I took the liberty to take a sample from it with the first 20 seconds unchanged, then another 20 seconds run through the "Phase EQ" effect I mentioned before (which applies widening EQ using MS techniques) - for me, much more clear, wide and open with the effect applied.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/...%20widened.mp3 (1MB, 40 seconds only).

I think that sample is still available, but it's only short.

[Edit - yes the sample still plays here, at least, and the second half of it certainly sounds much improved to my ear. But bear in mind it's an mp3 processed from an original mp3, so there would be a little overall quality loss along the road. Also see the general discussion in that forum around the post I've linked to, to see some info about how the original recording was made.]

[GYMusic]

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

Yes, I own one, but I've barely used it with the built in mics as I'm a stereo image freak and they irritate me more than somewhat.

Over on the TapersSection forums there was some discussion of the M10 stereo imaging and people posted some samples which I then took the liberty of tweaking and reposting using Matthew Lindsay NCL Phase EQ, a high quality 6 band equalizer VST effect plug-in for Windows PC ("Phase EQ" vst which uses MS techniques to apply eq to mid and side independently).

Sony PCM-M10 (Part 2) may bring up the right page of the thread. But I'll quote the post here -

I think that sample is still available, but it's only short.

[Edit - yes the sample still plays here, at least, and the second half of it certainly sounds much improved to my ear. But bear in mind it's an mp3 processed from an original mp3, so there would be a little overall quality loss along the road. Also see the general discussion in that forum around the post I've linked to, to see some info about how the original recording was made.]

That sample sounds like it was recorded at the back of the room with poor acoustics. The high end got lost. I would hardly blame the mics in the M-10.

[GYMusic]

I would also suggest that the posters at Thetaperssection learn about microphone placement before blaming their tools.

[chris319]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I sewed one out of fake fur and an elastic hair tie, and it cost me something like $1.50.

How many teddy bears did you slaughter in the process?

[Ozpeter]

I would also suggest that the posters at Thetaperssection learn about microphone placement before blaming their tools.

So if you were using a pair of omni mics for a stereo recording, how would you place them relative to each other (never mind for now relative to the sound source) - 5cm apart, as in the M-10? I doubt it. Sorry, the tool is to blame - it doesn't matter where you place it, it will never produce a good stereo image.

I agree that placing it on a table too close (according to the owner) to the source and off to one side is going to compound the problem, but it's never going to be right with that mic configuration.

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

(it's got a camera-style threaded hole in the bottom) is mandatory. I took a clip to fasten a camera onto the edge of a table and affixed a rubberized/wooden spoon to it

Not really following you on the wooden spoon thing, Joel, but ...


I put together my own clamp for screwing into the tripod thread on
the back, instead of using a tripod. I got one of those Mic-Eze clamps
that you can get for mounting a mic anywhere. (I think the clamp
may be designed for attaching to a mic stand shaft.) The clamp
has a wing nut on it so, in addition to the spring action of the
clamp, you can tighten it down real tight with the wing nut.
(There is grippy rubber on the inside of the clamp to grab onto
what you attach it to.) Then I put an adapter on the clamp,
the adapter being mic-to-1/4. (So that's 5/8-27 to 1/4-20.)
The clamp opens up 2 1/4" wide.

If anyone wants to know the exact items I used just let me know.
Altogether cost me about $20 or so.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by chris319

How many teddy bears did you slaughter in the process?

Remarkably, no teddy bears perished for that one. But, whatever fake animals they raise to get "fake fur"...

Originally Posted by Brackish

Not really following you on the wooden spoon thing....

I think I did almost pretty much the same thing as you-- only my investigations revealed that if I held the thing, physically in my hand, I'd get these subtle little *ticks* in the audio-- some kind of electrical impulses from my magnetic personality? I dunno, when you get used to burning out streetlights, you just accept it-- some people are blessed with these annoying superhuman powers. So to break the electrical connection, I fastened the camera mount to a slice of rubber sandal, and that in turn is bolted to a sheared off upright wooden spoon-- so it has a vertical handle that all-in-all makes the whole contraption look like some kind of hi-tech tomahawk.

But I don't, like, wear a Lone Ranger mask or nothing...

[GYMusic]

http://www.gymusic.com/audio/leeboys widened_GYMusic.mp3

[pmj]

Originally Posted by ABBA

There is a problem with a huge batch of Zoom H1 draining batteries.
When the problem is fixed I'll buy one myself.

ABBA

FWIW I had an early model which had this fault on it (duff capacitor causing too much drain apparently). I'm in the UK and Zoom over here will exchange the faulty units for a new model. They were really quick to sort this out too.

[Peter Allison]

well I have used my H2 quite a lot, just taking it in a "wash bag", which contains spare sd cards, batteries and mains adapter. Its not that bad, imho, for the money, even to the extent of putting it next to some "quality mics" and comparing the results. The only downside I have come across, is the lack of bass response, but will put that down to the cardoid mics and the frequency response of said mics
Peter
ps. please tell me that a tascam DR100 will be an improvement, and if the sound of this file can be improved in any way

[skyy38]

Originally Posted by Peter Allison

well I have used my H2 quite a lot, just taking it in a "wash bag", which contains spare sd cards, batteries and mains adapter. Its not that bad, imho, for the money, even to the extent of putting it next to some "quality mics" and comparing the results. The only downside I have come across, is the lack of bass response, but will put that down to the cardoid mics and the frequency response of said mics
Peter
ps. please tell me that a tascam DR100 will be an improvement, and if the sound of this file can be improved in any way

Don't know about the Tascam DR100, but WOW, you did that wave with the H2, correct? OUTSTANDING!!!

There's a theory I've had about the Zoom Recorders for sometime now-for digital instruments, they have a WHOLE lot of warmth to the sound.
Was digital supposed to sound "cold" in the early days, or are the mics on the Zooms THAT good? The pipe organ was just....*THERE*.... but the sound is just so analog!

I'll trade you one, recorded with My H1 capsules, because I have a slight bone to pick with ZOOM.......

View To A Kill - Title Song By Duran Duran by skyy38 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Again, don't toss your H2, even though I've heard some caveats about it myself:

1. Allegedly SLOW file transfer. If the H2 is anything like the H1, isn't the
H2 supposed to act like a card reader so you can drag-n-drop the files to your folder? Or do the files get "sucked out" automatically ( you know, like digital cameras) into your computer. I just hook up my H1, wait for the window, go through the required number of "clonks" and I'm dragging and dropping like a maniac-nothing slow about it!

2. No true level control-Just three settings for setting levels- LOW-MEDIUM and HIGH. Isn't that a little crazy? Or does each setting cover a certain range of DB.

Oh yeah, the bone I have to pick with my H1 LINE function is that it distorts HORRIBLY at acceptable line levels.
Either I've got a bad unit, or the H1 AD converters are rubbish, but I can't imagine ZOOM releasing a "half-done" unit, so.....

[skyy38]

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

The M-10 omni mics are a bit of a shame, otherwise it's indeed a nice solid device (especially at the price).

Agreed, WHY Omni's...?

Are these on ALL Sony Handhelds? That might go a LONG ways towards explaining why there was WAY too much "air" when I was recording a bell choir in church-It was just too vacant sounding and now I realize that condensers are the *best* way to go....at least on my H1.