Help designing permanent-install FOH system

[dasbin]

A local live theatre is undergoing significant renovations, and I've been charged with coming up with a decent FOH sound setup.
The theatre is only a bit over 200 seats, and the budget for sound is "whatever is left over," which will not be much at all. As far as existing equipment, only the board and rack equipment is any good. Speakers, amps, and wiring are up to me.
Now, I know what I'd LIKE to do, and it involves several rather expensive Meyer active speakers. But realistically, I don't think the budget allows.

What would you do in a situation like this? I'm thinking minimalist; maybe just 2 speakers for the whole house - then we can afford better speakers. I doubt a sub will be necessary in a venue this size, and for the kinds of shows they put on. Centre cluster? Not sure. Is it unusual for a theatre not to have a centre channel at all?
Any specific equipment recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I'm at a loss when it comes to recommending anything less than top-tier systems.

Also, does anyone know of any acoustics design software that will let me plug in some dimensions and tell me the ideal mounting location for the speakers? I still have the ear of the designer at this point so thankfully I have quite a degree of control over this aspect. The tricky part is going to be using this advantage fully, as I'm not a trained acoustician.

[bunnerabb]

Leave money for a delay line and some delay fills for the balcony.

I've mixed a lot of old school, 1,200 to 2,000 seat houses and you're not going to be peeling paint in there, so you're going to need delay fills to reach the cheap seats at low volumes.

Powered speakers are probably your best bet and with 100 Deg. Hor. dispersion characteristics on the HF, the Mackie SRM series are pretty good bang for the bucks.

Make sure you have a good snake and that all the ends work and that it's not near heavy RF fields or the distro.

The Mackies have flypoints and you can dead hang them or motor hang them.

With the SRM, you might have enough left over for a decent sub and an amp for it and you WILL want that. Trust. Some shows are gonna have sound design that have some ass bumping low end for certain effects or bed music.

If I had a house plot and a budget I could help more.

I've done a reasonable amount of SC work for worship and theatres.

[Waylon]

Originally Posted by dasbin

....... I know what I'd LIKE to do, and it involves several rather expensive Meyer active speakers. But realistically, I don't think the budget allows.....

Take a look at KV2 audio.... affordable, and a serious Meyer killer... I think the EX10 or 12.....

[shaddai]

I think bunnerabb is on to a useable solution. Our church auditorium is about 300-350 seats. We're running 4 mackie SRM450's and a pair of SWA1501's for FOH. Those, and a driverack are all that's between the console and the audience. We run sundays at 90-92db at the console, which means about 95 peak at the loudest spot in the room.

I've also slowly snuck it right on by 100db with a full house and the FOH never even began to lose it's grip or get sloppy. The biggest change I noticed was that the kick & bass just punched you in the chest a bit harder than normal.

Todd

[dasbin]

Thanks for the replies. I am not a fan of the Mackie SRM. It just has that cheap horn sound to it and lacks smoothness. There are better options for less money here in Canada, from Yorkville.
In reality though I think I'd like to focus at least one step above the "affordable portable PA monitors" range. But not so far up as to significantly affect the price we're talking about.

Still I am very interested by the mention of KV2. I have heard a lot of good stuff about them. Anyone have any hands-on experience?

[fifthcircle]

What kinds of shows will you be doing in this space?

Is it theater in the traditional sense or is it a multi-use space? My favorite cost-effective speaker is the Apogee AE-5. For 200 people, you could probably fly 2 on a side and get decent sound with good coverage. I also like the Meyer UPA's, but they are going to need a sub a lot more than the Apogee's will.

If you are doing theater and need the sound system for a lot of effects, then get subs as well regardless of what you get.

Make sure your FOH has adequate EQ, drive rack, playback, etc... The new Yamaha M7CL is a pretty cool small digital board. Has everything you need to run small to mid-size shows in a pretty small package. Digital boards can be nice as you'll be able to recall scenes that you set in the sound check.


-Ben

[Banjoman]

Hello,

I design sound systems for churches and the like for a living and whenever Meyer is brought up the reply goes; "You can buy a better loudspeaker, but you won't pay more for it."

Since your on a budget, you should look into QSC amplifiers (ISA series for installation) and either Renkus-Heinz or SLS loudspeakers (look both companies up online). QSC amps are indestructible and are a worthwhile investment. Both Renkus & SLS offer different loudspeakers based on price (Renkus: TRX; SLS: US series), these are the budget approach.

As far as acoustical software goes, there is one piece of software called CARA CAD which I have never used, but is only $90 or something close to that and is for relatively small spaces.

Try not to over think loudspeaker placement. Install them in a logical location, not too high off the floor/stage, aim towards the last row of the space, and tweak from there.

Hope this helps.

[ExistanceMusic]

Originally Posted by dasbin

Still I am very interested by the mention of KV2. I have heard a lot of good stuff about them. Anyone have any hands-on experience?

I did a festival a few weeks ago, and one of the stages was running a KV2 system. Outdoor stage, 300-400 people. One stack per side, subs, low/mids, highs. Very focussed sound, very tight dispersion. Indoors, I'd image they would be excellent for reflective rooms where you needed to keep the sound from bouncing off the walls too much. Very punchy system for the size. The company I work for uses nexo alphas for similar jobs, and I would put the KV2s on a par with Alpha Es (as an example).

I run systems, so I have no idea of prices for anything, but you could do alot worse. Definatly better than a Mackie or RCF system.