Need Super Quiet Mic/Pre's for Location Recording

[dougfatheruk]

Hi all,

I currently use an Octopre LE in to my 002R and things start to get messy when i turn the gain past 8, typically there is a massive surge of gain at this point. I've never been happy with the Octopre, it is very harsh and everythig leans towards the highs with no punch or body around the low and mids.

I am recording brass and male voice choirs and typically have to deal with a huge amount of dynamic range. I recently purchased a rode NT2-a to complement my two Rode NT1-a's. I use these mics because have pretty much the lowest self noise going, i got caught out using some nasty Samsons so hence my reason for going Rode. They have made a huge difference but i need to squeeze some more gain to get a semi respectable signal in Pro Tools.

Can anybody recommend some really quiet mic pre's that aren't the price of GML, Avalon, Sytek etc.

An 8 mic/pre unit would be ideal but i'd be happy to drop to 4 or multiple 1/2 units if it would really make the difference. Budget is about 500GBP.

[Jimsi]

There is not alot you can get for your quid, maybe some decent 2 channel pres for 500bp... FMR RNP, Black Lion Audio Pre and these are just 2 channels, and some pres made in europe that are decent...Presonus makes an 8 channel strip for that, but i dont feel you will get that good of pre for what your needed...

[jitterybit]

Millennia HV-3 would be a great choice. Watch the used market?

[flutist]

LAKE PEOPLE MIC AMP C360 - U.K. International Cyberstore

IMO, it's the best quality/price ratio.
Really clear and quiet.

[dougfatheruk]

Thanks guys, any more recommendations would be greatly received.

[edva]

Fmr rnp?

[Snatchman]

Maybe get in touch with Jim@Audio Upgrades..Maybe he can suggest a "doner style" used cheap pre and then mod it and drop one of his PIP pre-amps into it..Should get you clean gain.. Good luck..

[richgilb]

I have the same preamp problem with a MOTU 8Pre and was looking at the Lake People F366T, which is a bit difficult for me financially in one purchase. Flutist, how does this C360 differ from the F366S? Also I wonder how it rackmounts.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by edva

Fmr rnp?

This is what they say about their own pre amp:

The RNP is relatively noisy when evaluated by lab measurement
Many mic pres these days (including the really cheap ones) have very low noise floors (EINs of -127dB or better). The RNP's EIN of -120dB is obviously not as "good" as these others.

I decided that the sonic character (or lack thereof) and a decent price point were more important than the absolute noise floor. Why? First, many of the sought-after vintage mic pre noise levels are much worse than the RNPs. So in actual use, I concluded, many folks (particularly those "in-the-know") prefer good tone, even if it's slightly noisier. Second, even though we have internal versions of the RNP with a lower EIN, we'd have to charge at least $100 more for the privilege of meeting lab measurements that few actual applications would challenge. Third, the trend in microphone development has been to raise the output level of microphones, thereby reducing overall gain requirements of external mic pres. Are there some applications using the RNP that may be problematic? Yes. Will most of us encounter them? No.

[theom]

Try one of these
The John Hardy Company Jensen Twin Servo 990 2 Channel Version

or 4 in a rack
http://www.johnhardyco.com/JTS990Details.html

An awesome pre from an awesome designer built by another awesome guy John Hardy.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by theom

Try one of these
The John Hardy Company Jensen Twin Servo 990 2 Channel Version

or 4 in a rack
The John Hardy Company Jensen Twin Servo 990 Mic Preamp

An awesome pre from an awesome designer built by another awesome guy John Hardy.

Budget of £500?

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by jitterybit

Millennia HV-3 would be a great choice. Watch the used market?

Budget of £500. Can you really get multiple channels used for around $800?

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

The nice thing about live, is that the ambient noise of the room covers a lot of sins. Look at the low-mid MI chain stuff, you'll find something from a local music store that will work in your situation.

I've done a lot of this kind of work, but I was always looking for a better quality product that could be used int he studio as well. I had an Oram Octopre and an ATI 8MX2, both worked well. The Millenia is an obvious choice almost an industry standard, as is the John Nardy. True is popular with some, but the two channel version did not rock us. Still, for your needs, it may just be the ticket. You'd have to find one used though. I'f I was buying today and I needed a budget answer, I'd still be looking for another ATI 8MX2. Very flexible piece.

[mlange]

Originally Posted by richgilb

This is what they say about their own pre amp:

The RNP is relatively noisy when evaluated by lab measurement
Many mic pres these days (including the really cheap ones) have very low noise floors (EINs of -127dB or better). The RNP's EIN of -120dB is obviously not as "good" as these others.

I decided that the sonic character (or lack thereof) and a decent price point were more important than the absolute noise floor. Why? First, many of the sought-after vintage mic pre noise levels are much worse than the RNPs. So in actual use, I concluded, many folks (particularly those "in-the-know") prefer good tone, even if it's slightly noisier. Second, even though we have internal versions of the RNP with a lower EIN, we'd have to charge at least $100 more for the privilege of meeting lab measurements that few actual applications would challenge. Third, the trend in microphone development has been to raise the output level of microphones, thereby reducing overall gain requirements of external mic pres. Are there some applications using the RNP that may be problematic? Yes. Will most of us encounter them? No.

I own Hardy, Focurite Red, Benchmark, and other "clean" pres.

However, for location recording I use the RNP. The published (ie, honest) specs have never been an issue. It sounds great, is quieter than I've ever needed, and is built like a tank. As an added bonus, it runs on just about any source voltage (ac or dc) so battery usage in the field is easy to configure. Check with FMR for the acceptable voltage ranges.

+1 FMR RNP

[flutist]

Flutist, how does this C360 differ from the F366S?

It seems to be the same in a 19" box, but it would be better to ask Lake People Manager Fried Reim (fried.reim@lake-people.de) about the F366S.

Personnaly, I'm using the F355: it's really wonderfull!

[pasarski]

Originally Posted by dougfatheruk

Hi all,

I've never been happy with the Octopre, it is very harsh and everythig leans towards the highs with no punch or body around the low and mids.

Are you sure it's the pre and not the mics you use? I have found that at least NT1-A suites that description very well.

What comes to noise, I prefer good soundin record with some noise over a bad sounding but noiseless one.

[ivmike]

You want:

• multiple pre-amps (more than two)
• low cost
• low price
• low noise

I suggest: BEHRINGER: ADA8000

In order to use is solely as a pre-amp, you need to purchase one SPIDIF/ADAT optical cable and connect the "ADAT OUT" to the "ADAT IN" on the back and then set the sync to 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz.

[dougfatheruk]

Thanks for all the responses guys, it helps massively because the non mainstream brands aren't so easy to find when shopping around. The problem with living in the ass end of the UK is there are no pro audio dealers for several hundred miles so i often have to go by forums and reviews.

As far as the EIN figure well that literally is to be taken with a pinch of salt. I did a quick test yesterday recording fully wound pre's in to Pro Tools. The Octopre LE produced an audible hiss what didn;t register on the meters whereas the 002R pre's made a horrendous noise, it was showing around -65dBFS....WTF??? The Digi lists itself as having a lower EIN.....i don't think so.

For the immediate i'm gonna toss the Octopre in favour of a presonus Digimax FS, i need an 8 channel unit but man the Octopre is harsh....i've never liked it from day one. I'm also going to take all the posts from thread and weigh up a couple of kick ass pre's.

Thanks again

[Jimsi]

Originally Posted by dougfatheruk

Thanks for all the responses guys, it helps massively because the non mainstream brands aren't so easy to find when shopping around. The problem with living in the ass end of the UK is there are no pro audio dealers for several hundred miles so i often have to go by forums and reviews.

As far as the EIN figure well that literally is to be taken with a pinch of salt. I did a quick test yesterday recording fully wound pre's in to Pro Tools. The Octopre LE produced an audible hiss what didn;t register on the meters whereas the 002R pre's made a horrendous noise, it was showing around -65dBFS....WTF??? The Digi lists itself as having a lower EIN.....i don't think so.

For the immediate i'm gonna toss the Octopre in favour of a presonus Digimax FS, i need an 8 channel unit but man the Octopre is harsh....i've never liked it from day one. I'm also going to take all the posts from thread and weigh up a couple of kick ass pre's.

Thanks again

This is the one i was thinking for your budget...it should be a better choice than the Behringer that also was suggested by someone...I had their little TubePre and found it to be very clean and I recorded many vocal tracks for people all over the world needing vox on it...enjoy it until you get a better unit...

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by dougfatheruk

Thanks for all the responses guys, it helps massively because the non mainstream brands aren't so easy to find when shopping around. The problem with living in the ass end of the UK is there are no pro audio dealers for several hundred miles so i often have to go by forums and reviews.

As far as the EIN figure well that literally is to be taken with a pinch of salt. I did a quick test yesterday recording fully wound pre's in to Pro Tools. The Octopre LE produced an audible hiss what didn;t register on the meters whereas the 002R pre's made a horrendous noise, it was showing around -65dBFS....WTF??? The Digi lists itself as having a lower EIN.....i don't think so.

For the immediate i'm gonna toss the Octopre in favour of a presonus Digimax FS, i need an 8 channel unit but man the Octopre is harsh....i've never liked it from day one. I'm also going to take all the posts from thread and weigh up a couple of kick ass pre's.

Thanks again

Interesting way forward. I decided to keep my MOTU for now, turn its gay preamps right down and then feed other pres into its inputs, essentially using the MOTU for just its Cuemix latency-avoiding monitoring facility and its converter. So far I got a Gainstation 1, which is quiet at the top end, offering up to 100db gain. The noise problem (and generally ponderous sound of the MOTU preamps) is now completely gone. And I am now zoning in on an affordable Lake People C360, which I will also feed through the MOTU and then maybe buy 2 more as the cash comes in. And eventually I will ditch the MOTU for a better converter. So, thanks from me too for the responses!

[edva]

Originally Posted by mlange

I own Hardy, Focurite Red, Benchmark, and other "clean" pres.

However, for location recording I use the RNP. The published (ie, honest) specs have never been an issue. It sounds great, is quieter than I've ever needed, and is built like a tank. As an added bonus, it runs on just about any source voltage (ac or dc) so battery usage in the field is easy to configure. Check with FMR for the acceptable voltage ranges.

+1 FMR RNP

Thank you. I felt like I was busted by the "spec police", when I've actually used the equipment in question many times, and noise is not an issue with it.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by edva

Thank you. I felt like I was busted by the "spec police", when I've actually used the equipment in question many times, and noise is not an issue with it.

Name and address, please. You are under arrest.

[Brad Lunde]

Originally Posted by dougfatheruk

Hi all,

I currently use an Octopre LE in to my 002R and things start to get messy when i turn the gain past 8, typically there is a massive surge of gain at this point. I've never been happy with the Octopre, it is very harsh and everythig leans towards the highs with no punch or body around the low and mids.

I am recording brass and male voice choirs and typically have to deal with a huge amount of dynamic range. I recently purchased a rode NT2-a to complement my two Rode NT1-a's. I use these mics because have pretty much the lowest self noise going, i got caught out using some nasty Samsons so hence my reason for going Rode. They have made a huge difference but i need to squeeze some more gain to get a semi respectable signal in Pro Tools.

Can anybody recommend some really quiet mic pre's that aren't the price of GML, Avalon, Sytek etc.

An 8 mic/pre unit would be ideal but i'd be happy to drop to 4 or multiple 1/2 units if it would really make the difference. Budget is about 500GBP.

The Daking Mic Pre One is about that price per channel. Has a variable High Pass filter that could prove quite uuseful on location. Daking Mic Pre 4 version as well without the filter. True P8 8 channels in 1U is quiet, Grace 801 too. Call Studio Care in Liverpool. They can at least help you with the Daking.

Brad

[Teddy Ray]

DAV DAV DAV

www.davelectronics.com

used and loved by the best of the best. Do a search here. Very well loved..
UK too.

[ysmgj]

Dammit, Teddy beat me by minutes!

wow, no ones mentioned the DAV BG1.

DAV make a nice quiet silky 2 channel for 470 quid (what i paid a couple months ago).

soo soooo nice sounding for the classical and traditional stuff i've been doing which can go from fingerpicking quiet to smacktheFr@kking-instrument-real-loud in a split second. its handled that stuff really nicely, so brass and choir ought to sound loverly through the BG1.

there's a bunch of samples on the remote forum so you might want to look around there. quite a few reviews, and comparisons as well.

quiet as hell,... hardly ever turn it past 12oclock.

They're in Twickenham as well, and Mick is great to deal with thumbsup

[Remoteness]

We're talking about location recording with (mostly) high end gear in the Low End forum, so I moved the thread here instead.

[rumleymusic]

Yeah, DAV makes the best IC opamp based preamps out there. Which means you get great quality at a price that won't kill you.

[JEGG]

Mr. Plush must be ill.

[ysmgj]

it's early yet,....

[sonare]

Plush is not currently here, so I will step up to the mic and say, "DAV are the finest micamps in the world." (SM)

I own 12 channels myself and love them.

Rich