PA amp - 1000 watts a side. Can't afford QSC

[Blast9]

Hey folks

What do you suggest as a power amp to drive 2 passive Hz Z500 3 way speakers?

Their spec is -

• Frequency Response: 40Hz - 250kHz

• Connections: 2 x 'Speakon'

• Dispersion: 90° x 90°

• Sensitivit: @ 1w 1m: 101dB

• Power Handling RMS: 500w

• Peak SPL: 131dB

• Peak power: 1500w

• Nominal Impedance: 8 ohm - actually I think they are 4ohm

• Average SPL: 125dB

• Dimensions: 63.4 cm x 38 cm x 26 cm

• Weight: 16kg

Nice sounding speakers and I can't afford the QSC powered speakers I really want just yet.

I can't afford something like QSC amps unless I buy used - what is worth checking out?

-

Brands I have seen on discount - Yamaha, Crown, Crest, Peavey, Electro Voice RCF - any good models?

What do you think of Peavey Cs-3000? - I see they have a 5 year warranty

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Hey folks

What do you suggest as a power amp to drive 2 passive Hz Z500 3 way speakers?

Their spec is -

• Frequency Response: 40Hz - 250kHz

How did they measure that??? Seeing as our hearing stops ~20kHz when we are young this is an amazing figure.

[Blast9]

Built for bats! I am guessing 25K

I am trying to verify this but the manufacturer's site doesn't have a spec sheet. Gonna call them tomorrow!

I got the spec off a couple of different dealer's sites.

I actually bought these 2nd-hand as part of a system

[hbphotoav]

Peavey have always been built like brick outhouses (CS400 and CS800 are the ones I've used). Since they acquired Crest a number of years ago, I'm certain Peavey has borrowed heavily from their design and build processes. For most small-form PA work, reliability and sufficient headroom have been the watchwords for me. I started with Peavey amps in the '70s, and, except for a brief dalliance with Phase Linear on my bass bins (which was stolen from a locked van in my driveway), have powered my passive speakers with either Peavey, QSC or Crest. With the exception of a couple of 25-yr-old MX1500s (whose temperature sensors failed) I have yet to blow one up or need repair. Then, I am rather judicious regarding headroom, and SPL. Repairing amps or drivers is a pain I choose to avoid...

My $.02US...

[wafflesomd]

You don't need 1000w/side for those things. I'm sure they won't handle much more than 250w.

Behringer EP2500 is an excellent amplifier. You can't that much power for less. The EP2500 is one of the few things Behringer has done right.

[Blast9]

I spoke to the manufacturer today who advised me re the power amp power rating.

(from what he told me ) I am confident they handle 500W RMS/1500 peak. However I have no hard facts/test info to back this up

We are using a yamaha 400 watts per side at 4 ohms into these at the moment - not quite cutting ot for clean headroom.

[rwhealey]

Originally Posted by wafflesomd

Behringer EP2500 is an excellent amplifier. You can't that much power for less. The EP2500 is one of the few things Behringer has done right.

That's because it's literally a copy of the QSC RMX 2450:

http://www.tomhole.com/Behringer%20E...RMX%202450.htm

According to the thread below they even plagiarized the manual...

Behringer Research & Decal department (big pics) - Page 2 - TalkBass Forums

[shaddai]

I've used Peavey, QSC, Crown, Crest & other amps in my live sound/DJ history. Some more extensively than others. I'll openly admit I'm a QSC fan with healthy respect for Crown & Crest, and it's been a little while since I've drooled over live amps.

However, If I were to go amp hunting today, with an eye toward cost effectiveness, I'd probably start hunting for a clean used QSC MX or Powerlight of suitable wattage, maybe an RMX if it was a good deal. I'd also definitely pay attention if a suitable Crown Macrotech came around. True, those are all older designs, but they sound great, are stubbornly reliable, and should be cost effective...even if they are a little heavy.

I probably wouldn't be interested in the Peavey stuff....although I know Peavey's still get through shows every night if the amp is in good shape. I may have been spoiled, but I've always been disappointed with the way the Peavey's amps behaved and sounded..they're just sorta Some of their speakers on the other hand, I'd take in a heartbeat.

As an example: QSC's open up & develop this well tuned, sweet "screaming rage" kind of character as you turn them up, much like a race bike rolling into it's power band. Crown's have a sweet spot as well, but their character moves from a "lazy normal" toward being perfectly efficient, violently powerful & deadly accurate. The Peavey's get louder, and that's it....they never seem to find a happy place to work, or if they do, they're hiding it pretty well & still sound like they're working to get moving. Of course, maybe that's changed since Crest has been around...

hbphotoav seems to have had good luck by being nice to Peavey's. In my past, I've been simply demanding on amplifiers. That may be the difference in opinion about Peavey.

Of course, if you're playing polka in old folks homes, screaming rage & violently powerful aren't what you're gunning for anyway

Although it seems obvious, keep in mind that an amp can only perform as well as what's feeding it...and what it's feeding.

About power ratings though...you're more likely to smoke drivers with an underpowered amp working really hard, than a slightly overpowered one just pluggin away. An amp with a clipping LED is definitely a wise move in any situation...9 times out of 10 by the time you hear or smell things going wrong, the LED would have told you to back off.

Anyway, just my $.02
todd

[shaddai]

That's because it's literally a copy of the QSC RMX 2450:

Exactly why I've never bought anything behringer....

[rwhealey]

Was going to offer to sell you my RMX2450 till I noticed your location...

Is QSC much more expensive for you than it is here? You mentioned the Peavey CS-3000 which is about 1k USD, while a QSC PLX3102 is priced pretty similar.

[Blast9]

Thanks for your replies...

Is it safe to go for used power amps? Try before buy of course but I am just wondering if these things just get retired rather than sold on because of the nature of their use?

Todd, you should be on Top Gear with that eloquence and turn of phrase!

rwhealey - my budget is around half that for a power amp - til next year! QSC stuff starts around £900

Behringer EP2500 - thanks for the heads up wafflesomd - bet they don't come with a 5 year warranty like Peavey!

QSC RMX 2450 - Shaddai... I'm curious, what is wrong with that amp? (oh I see what you mean - from an ethical viewpoint)


Actually I didn't realise ther were various different QSC models - I thought they were all "expensive" - mind you the cheaper ones don't have the sort of power I'm after.

[Teddy Ray]

the EMOTIVA amps are superb. Really top notch, very well built, great sounding, using great components. They have taken the hifi world by storm. Just great stuff!!!


http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

Emotiva Audio XPA-1 Differential Reference? Mono-block Power Amplifier




the behringer A500 is a fantastic amp too. I have several friends in the Uk who use them to power their very tough to drive Apogee Ribbon Speakers(and Quads)

the a500 is the best behringer product, imo..

superb amps

[Blast9]

Yes I have an A500 - using it with passive monitors as foldback thumbsup

originally got it as a bass head for my sansamp pedal - cheap used deal!

-

wow that emotiva looks like a tank!

-

EP2500 discontinued and not for sale! - no chance for warranty, then!

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Yes I have an A500 - using it with passive monitors as foldback thumbsup

originally got it as a bass head for my sansamp pedal - cheap used deal!

-

wow that emotiva looks like a tank!

-

EP2500 discontinued and not for sale! - no chance for warranty, then!

the EMOTIVA amps are VERY well built, and rock solid performers. If it were me, I'd jump all over it. I want one for myself actually. They are very well regarded and gaining more ground every day.

[wafflesomd]

Originally Posted by shaddai

Exactly why I've never bought anything behringer....

Why? because the EP2500 performs very well at a very low cost? Or because it performs better than the Crown K2?

Oh wait. They copied the PCB. That means the product is inferior. Better go spend more money to get the same thing.

Those wattages are marketing BS. Try actually putting 500w through them and watch for the smoke, let alone 1500w. I'm sure your 400w Yamaha is fine (if it's actually outputting 400w/channel.) If you're actually putting 400w into those cabinets and they aren't doing what you want them too, then you have some pretty inefficient speakers there. HZ is a budget brand and I question the overall quality of the speakers.

My DIY 12" two ways using Eminence woofers and CD's will get in the 120db range with ~85w each.

Emotiva amplifiers are great, but not exactly something that I would like to transport on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Blast9

EP2500 discontinued and not for sale! - no chance for warranty, then!

Yah, it's the EP4000 now. Same amp, different name.

Originally Posted by rwhealey

That's because it's literally a copy of the QSC RMX 2450:

http://www.tomhole.com/Behringer%20E...RMX%202450.htm

According to the thread below they even plagiarized the manual...

Behringer Research & Decal department (big pics) - Page 2 - TalkBass Forums

And here's a thread to let you know about all the other companies who copy other gear.

Behringer are at it again.

[GZsound]

I would check out the Peavey IPR 1600 amp. Great price and weighs only 7 pounds.

I have QSC GX5 amps that were inexpensive and put out a lot of power, plus come with a six year warranty. They are under $400 and rated something like 750 a side.

I would buy just about any power amp before getting a Behringer or Nady, although their amps don't seem as prone to failure as their other gear.

You don't need an amp that puts out a thousand watts per side to power 500 watt speakers. I ran Peavey SP5 speakers with a 350 watt per channel Soundtech amp for ten years with no problems and plenty of volume.

[shaddai]

QSC RMX 2450 - Shaddai... I'm curious, what is wrong with that amp? (oh I see what you mean - from an ethical viewpoint)

The QSC RMX, nothing wrong with them.

Behringer = ethics. They don't appear to have any.

todd

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by wafflesomd

W
Emotiva amplifiers are great, but not exactly something that I would like to transport on a regular basis.

do you own them? if so, which one, and why wouldn't you transport it?


Because I can say with 100% confidence that they are better built/more rugged than most of what is out there. Peavey, Behringer, etc included.

[wafflesomd]

Originally Posted by GZsound

I would buy just about any power amp before getting a Behringer or Nady, although their amps don't seem as prone to failure as their other gear.

So you would take a Crown K2 over one? Even though it outperforms the K2?

The build quality is very good on the EP2500. Better than a lot of amps I've had to repair. I seriously get a TON of Crown amps for repair. More so than any other brand. I would probably base that on the fact that some of their amplifiers look like this.

http://www.linaeum.com/computerspeak...d_internal.jpg

Here are the Behringer internals.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...intlarggv9.jpg

Both of those amplifiers are the in the same price bracket.

Here's some measurements done on the EP2500.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ohm-061007.jpg

And here's the K2.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ohm-091707.jpg

You'd buy the Crown over the Berry? Despite the fact that the behringer performs better and costs much less?

I don't understand some people...

[Blast9]

Thanks for the info ereryone thumbsup

wafflesomd - I have read that the audio path is via unsscreened ribbon cable that runs right next to the power circuits...

Have you encountered any noise probs with this design?

[wafflesomd]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Thanks for the info ereryone thumbsup

wafflesomd - I have read that the audio path is via unsscreened ribbon cable that runs right next to the power circuits...

Have you encountered any noise probs with this design?

Nothing so far. It doesn't appear to add any noise to the signal.

That was however an issue with the DCX2496 a few years back but they have since fixed that.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Thanks for the info ereryone thumbsup

wafflesomd - I have read that the audio path is via unsscreened ribbon cable that runs right next to the power circuits...

Have you encountered any noise probs with this design?

FYI

Just bought one of these Emotiva amps.

[GZsound]

Originally Posted by wafflesomd

So you would take a Crown K2 over one? Even though it outperforms the K2?

The build quality is very good on the EP2500. Better than a lot of amps I've had to repair. I seriously get a TON of Crown amps for repair. More so than any other brand. I would probably base that on the fact that some of their amplifiers look like this.

http://www.linaeum.com/computerspeak...d_internal.jpg

Here are the Behringer internals.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8...intlarggv9.jpg

Both of those amplifiers are the in the same price bracket.

Here's some measurements done on the EP2500.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ohm-061007.jpg

And here's the K2.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ohm-091707.jpg

You'd buy the Crown over the Berry? Despite the fact that the behringer performs better and costs much less?

I don't understand some people...

You name one model of Crown, and it's one I am not familiar with. I have a couple of Crown XLS amps that have been workhorses and very reliable. I paid $200 for my Crown XLS 402 three years ago and use it for monitors with excellent results.

QSC amps have an excellent reputation and mine have been totally reliable for a long time. I also have a Yamaha amp that just won't die.

My experience with Behringer equipment leads me to believe they are lacking on quality control. I have owned six Behringer mixers in the last seven years and all of them eventually failed. Meanwhile my Soundcraft and Yamaha mixers just keep on keeping on.

Buying something with better specs that costs less is meaningless if it fails in the middle of a gig.