Tall Stands at Concerts

[Larry Elliott]

I note in various pics that many folk are using tall stands for Classical concert recordings. Do you have problems with artists or venues when you do this. Major venues that I work at insist on slung mikes which is a real pain if you're working on your own.

Thanks
Larry

[Ozpeter]

Stands should be a last resort in terms of visual intrusion and problems with cable safety. But often there's simply no way of using anything else. Venues that realise (a) that people want their concerts recorded and (b) that there's no way of using suspended mics, will usually be co-operative though they themselves may be restrained by local safety regulations.

Plan ahead, and ask the questions well in advance. That way you'll know what to take, and you won't put the management's back up by forcing them into a corner on the day.

Keep things tidy, eg make sure that cables are run down the stands in such a way as they don't show at all, and so forth. Keep your stands clean and neat. Use gaffer tape that's the same colour as the stage for sticking down cables. Take note of how they do things for TV. (I noticed on some of the BBC proms that, if you look carefully, one of the violinists in the middle of the orchestra doesn't actually have a violin - she's got a small TV camera on her knees pointing at the conductor, but she's dressed like the orchestra and the camera is thoroughly 'blacked' and uses screen not an eyepiece viewfinder - but you really have to look hard to spot it). Use weights on stand feet if required (and not ones with big lettering on them). If placing stands within the orchestra, check sightlines to the conductor with the orchestral manager before the rehearsal starts. Be prepared to compromise on position if the performers are not happy - no point in recording unsettled musicans' performances.

I try to record classical concerts with the mindset "it's a public concert, not a recording session".

[fifthcircle]

I use stands most of the time, not because I don't want to hang mics, but rather because so often I cannot hang mics.

The reason changes all the time- ceiling is too high, not enough rigging points, or the most common- not enough time in setup to hang my rig. So often the clients are trying to cut corners with budget to make the show and recording happen. Having to schedule an extra couple hours in the hall often just isn't going to happen.

--Ben

[joelpatterson]

I have these normal stands with round, what, 10" bases? And then I slip a 10# barbell weight over that, and then I got these slender 5/8" conduit tubes from the hardware store, wrapped them in black electrical tape, slip them over the threads of the stand and affix a threaded mic holder to the top.

Tiny footprint, nearly invisible, holds a mic securely ten feet in the air. I mean, people can probably find a way to bitch about anything, but I figure this is the bitchiest-free-i-est thing I can possibly do... but then I think people are kind of intimidated by me anyway....

[studer58]

You might have a little trouble seeing this modified IKEA lighting stand a foot or two behind the conductor's podium, but then...that's the intention, right ?

[joelpatterson]

Exactly! But I do know there are some people who would say, "Fine, why don't you just go put up the Berlin Wall or something!"

[boojum]

Originally Posted by studer58

You might have a little trouble seeing this modified IKEA lighting stand a foot or two behind the conductor's podium, but then...that's the intention, right ?

What are the mics? The DPA 406n's? It is a nice setup and well placed and the cables neatly lain.

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Exactly! But I do know there are some people who would say, "Fine, why don't you just go put up the Berlin Wall or something!"

Yeah, I tried that but it screwed up the acoustics in the hall.

[0VU]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Exactly! But I do know there are some people who would say, "Fine, why don't you just go put up the Berlin Wall or something!"

Yep, I tried that too but the FOH manager complained that the watch towers were blocking lines of sight, the barbed wire and graffitti were unsightly and the musos complained about the checkpoint at the doors to the stage bar.

We ended up going with more of a Great Wall of China vibe.

[studer58]

Originally Posted by 0VU

Yep, I tried that too but the FOH manager complained that the watch towers were blocking lines of sight, the barbed wire and graffitti were unsightly and the musos complained about the checkpoint at the doors to the stage bar.

We ended up going with more of a Great Wall of China vibe.

No-one has suggested helium balloons, secured with light gauge fishing line as guy ties (or just use the mic cable for same). Select balloon colour to blend in with (or contrast against) room decor. Could spell trouble if they pop during the concert however .... !

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by studer58

You might have a little trouble seeing this modified IKEA lighting stand

Which stand is it? And what modification did you make to it?

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Tiny footprint, nearly invisible, holds a mic securely ten feet in the air.

What do you do to get it 10 feet up? Of course, a mic stand is only
4 feet tall of its own so what did you put on top of it?

[studer58]

Originally Posted by boojum

What are the mics? The DPA 406n's? It is a nice setup and well placed and the cables neatly lain.

8020 pair, sometimes with their own friction mounts, sometimes with Rycote Invisions. Here just experimental placement (in front of conductor) even though AB pair is permanently located above his head..... shows you how thin a tall stand can be though ! The Sennheiser MZL 8003 remote cables (3 metre) help keep things thin and elegant too.

[studer58]

Originally Posted by Brackish

Which stand is it? And what modification did you make to it?

Have a look at an earlier thread I posted here on the subject, about a year ago. The stand is called Hemma, although IKEA change the name every year or so, but the style and construction doesn't change much. Buy lots of them, and then 'innovate' ....! What do you use ?

[studer58]

Originally Posted by Brackish

Of course, a mic stand is only
4 feet tall of its own so what did you put on top of it?

A mic stand is a piece of steel with mic(s) on the top, who says how tall it has to be ? Sometimes a mic stand is something you make yourself to overcome a problem or a limitation....

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by studer58

The Sennheiser MZL 8003 remote cables (3 metre) help keep things thin and elegant too.

Use the Y-cable (now available) and send the two heads down a single MZL 8003.

[Ozpeter]

No-one has suggested helium balloons,

Before some of you young people were even born there was a UK magazine called "The Tape Recorder" and I recall a short article with photo depicting that very thing being used to record a cathedral organ.

(I wonder whether my collection of some of that magazine's back issues is still in the BBC room at the Wigmore Hall where I left them when I moved from the UK?!)

[studer58]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Use the Y-cable (now available) and send the two heads down a single MZL 8003.

How would that work....you'd have the 2 screw in connectors to the 8020 capsules and then they'd join to become a single dual balanced cable which went down the mic stand and terminated as 2 XLR connectors at the base ? I suppose it would be marginally more convenient and just as thin as 2 mouse-tail MZL8003 remote cables, and the resulting single cable would have a bit more strength and thickness...but overall not a huge gain really over the 2 separate cords ?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by studer58

How would that work....you'd have the 2 screw in connectors to the 8020 capsules and then they'd join to become a single dual balanced cable which went down the mic stand and terminated as 2 XLR connectors at the base ? I suppose it would be marginally more convenient and just as thin as 2 mouse-tail MZL8003 remote cables, and the resulting single cable would have a bit more strength and thickness...but overall not a huge gain really over the 2 separate cords ?

All the MKH 8000 remote cables, extension tubes, etc. are all dual balanced for two balanced signals. Having a single remote cabe can be a lot tidier than two of them.

I use the Y-cable to feed an ORTF pair of 8040s into a single MZD 8000 to make a stereo digital microphone.

I will shortly get a stereoset of MKH 8020 with the stand base, upright, long extension tube and remote cable so I can record live piano recitals almost invisibly. I have a nextel stereo bar and the two capsules going down a single tube will make a very neat and unobtrusive on-stage mount.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Brackish

What do you do to get it 10 feet up? Of course, a mic stand is only
4 feet tall of its own so what did you put on top of it?

The mic stand is four feet, and the the 5/8 conduit pipe dealio is six feet long, and so I slip the hollow conduit pipe over the end of the stand-- had to batter the end of the pipe a little to bell it out to fit over the threads-- overlaps an inch or two-- I do have legitimate oversized ten foot boom stands, but the legs stretch out so far, it's like each foot could be planted in a different county.

[boojum]

To add to the sub-thread (?) of skinny home made stands, I use some carbon fiber rods a la Petrus (I think) for DPA 4061's. I get about 2 meters this way and attach them to a skinny black mic stand for the additional extension. This allows me to skip building a base for the carbon fiber rods and carry them as a small bundle of rods to the site. Black gaffers tape attaches the bottom tube to the mic stand. Gaffers tape also attaches the DPA cables to the stand.

I last used this rig to record a choral work from row B, center. The audience wondered if it was a wireless antenna of some sort. Nobody really expects those little black bits at the end of the wire to actually be microphones.

[rumleymusic]

I use some carbon fiber rods a la Petrus (I think) for DPA 4061's

I do that to. I epoxied a spare neodymium bar magnet to the center of the rod so it will securely stick to the top of a mic stand.

[WVUtubadude]

I use a tall stand right in the middle of the front of the auditoriums I record in. Parents of middle/high schoolers are usually more thrilled that their kid will be on a CD than not being able to see a sliver of the top of their head.

One high school has an extensive fly system for curtains and rarely uses many of the bars. During set up, I drop the furthest forward bar and just hang two Countryman Isomax IIs from it.

I use "average" boom stands in the ensemble for spot mics, and nobody seems to mind. All of the cabling is done with a snake that just goes along the edge of the center aisle under some 4" gaff tape.

I have built a strong relationship with most of the schools I work with, and they are quick to take my side in the rare instance that a situation arises.

[sonare]

Here is how Tony Faulkner rigs his current "phased array" utilizing Schoeps CCMs and Audient fiber booms-- look at the Albert Hall (#8) shot:

Tony Faulkner - RecordProduction.com - pictures - photos - stock images of record producer, music producers, music recording studio and musicians

Tony told me he places a 60-pound weight on the base.

[Plush]

If you can't see it, you can't hear it.

[rumleymusic]

If you can't see it, you can't hear it.

hah, yeah, if I get your meaning. I usually tell my clients in much more eloquent words that it will either look like crap or sound like crap. Rarely can you have it both ways.

[7rojo7]

You can use lighting stands and water bottles as counterweghts. Hang a cablle between two of these with a ' homade sliding mount' put the stamds in the wings
better if you have 4 stands and 2 depths

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Plush

If you can't see it, you can't hear it.

But you can still play a mean pinball!

[chris319]

Originally Posted by studer58

You might have a little trouble seeing this modified IKEA lighting stand a foot or two behind the conductor's podium, but then...that's the intention, right ?

If I were doing the setup shown in the pictures and HAD to place a mic stand in the middle of the aisle, I would get some of those stands with velvetine cordons like they use in banks to keep people in line. I'd get some gold stands with red cordons, place them at four corners around the mic stands and connect them all with the cordons. Why? All you need is someone in the audience tripping over/crashing into your mic stand and breaking their tuchis or worse, toppling the stand and bonking someone on the head or gouging the wooden pews. There are also issues dealing with wheelchair access, and the fire marshal might have something to say about the stand being smack in the middle of the aisle. In addition, issues could arise if a DIY contraption falls apart and causes injury or damage. I realize you have to put your mics somewhere -- just sayin' -- be very, very careful when you place mics where an audience/the public could come in contact with them.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by chris319

If I were doing the setup shown in the pictures and HAD to place a mic stand in the middle of the aisle, I would get some of those stands with velvetine cordons like they use in banks to keep people in line. I'd get some gold stands with red cordons, place them at four corners around the mic stands and connect them all with the cordons.

One old trick is to adorn the mic stand with a noticeable sign declaring, "WARNING! 600 OHMS!"

[RobAnderson]

One old trick is to adorn the mic stand with a noticeable sign declaring, "WARNING! 600 OHMS!"

Or a label like this...?