pure stereo cd as reference
fafalio
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#1
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #1
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Thread Starter
pure stereo cd as reference

hello friends!
i know there was a thread about, but in detail i m searching some cd as reference for PURE stereo recording, with only two mics WITHOUT spots.
please only mention classical and jazz, NOT pop, rock or something else...
in the catalogue of chesky, telarc, delos and so on.
where i can listen a perfection in ratio direct sound/reverberation and perfect stereo image.
i will use them as reference, or better....to know what it is the standard.
alessandro.
#2
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafalio View Post
hello friends!
i know there was a thread about, but in detail i m searching some cd as reference for PURE stereo recording, with only two mics WITHOUT spots.
please only mention classical and jazz, NOT pop, rock or something else...
in the catalogue of chesky, telarc, delos and so on.
where i can listen a perfection in ratio direct sound/reverberation and perfect stereo image.
i will use them as reference, or better....to know what it is the standard.
alessandro.
+1
#3
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
  #3
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If you can expand your horizon to three mics, look for the CD version of the TelArc Digital release of Frederick Fennell/The Cleveland Symphonic Winds release of Holst, Handel and Bach. Three transformerless Schoeps SKM-52U omnis in Severance Hall (if you can score a copy of the audiophile LP, there are nice, big pictures, as well as being perhaps the best sounding piece of vinyl I know of) through a Studer 169 console to "the Soundstream Digital Recorder", then, after the edit, output directly to a Neumann half-speed cutting system. No limiting, filtering, compression, equalization or low frequency crossover at either acquisition or mastering. Monitoring was through ADS BC-8s.

Truly a wonderful LP (I don't have the CD version)... with one of the most complete write-ups I've ever seen. Rare... but worth looking for. The bass drum provided a fundamental at 32Hz, and is startlingly reproduced... if your playback system can handle it.

Here's a link to the CD... Amazon.com: Holst: Suite No.1 & 2/Handel: Music for the Royal Fireworks/Bach: Fantasia in G: Johann Sebastian Bach, George Frederick Handel, Gustav Holst, Frederick Fennell, Cleveland Symphonic Winds: Music

And a link to the (used) LP: Telarc - Fennell Lp 1978 - Holst Suites For Sale | AudiogoN

It was a killer demo disc in 1978... and still is, 30+ years later. Wonderful performances make it a joy to listen to, as well.
#4
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafalio View Post
hello friends!
i know there was a thread about, but in detail i m searching some cd as reference for PURE stereo recording, with only two mics WITHOUT spots.
please only mention classical and jazz, NOT pop, rock or something else...
in the catalogue of chesky, telarc, delos and so on.
where i can listen a perfection in ratio direct sound/reverberation and perfect stereo image.
i will use them as reference, or better....to know what it is the standard.
alessandro.

GOTYA! a man after my own heart there... I am a HUGE fan of minimal micd stuff. I have all of the recordings below and use them as my references for good sound.

Proprius recording- Cantate Domino - two mics only http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B0000E6...etteraddons-20

OrgelBuchlein on MA Recordings http://www.marecordings.com/main/pro...roducts_id=137

RCA Living Stereo Berlioz Symphony Fantastique (Op.14 is two channel) , op 17 is 3)-- phenomenal

Jazz at the pawnshop-- two mics http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000002...etteraddons-20

Clifford Jordan- Live at Ethels- (Mapleshade) http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/cds/56292.php

Lars Estrand- SWINGCERELY yours-- Opus 3 records

POPE MUsic- SCRIABIn Symphony 2-- http://www.musicdirect.com/product/75983 - two mics

opus 3 records test disc Amazon.com: A Selection From Test Records 1, 2 & 3: Various Artists: Music

Bach Flute sonatas- Waterlily acoustics- two mics only https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?f...e=090368031996

FONE records-- Ludus Danielis fon records - fon shop - Catalogue - Super audio CD - 016 SACD - Ludus Danielis - Daniel and the lions

everything on MA recordings

everything on waterlily acoustics

everything on YARLUNG records
#5
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafalio View Post
hello friends!
i know there was a thread about, but in detail i m searching some cd as reference for PURE stereo recording, with only two mics WITHOUT spots.
please only mention classical and jazz, NOT pop, rock or something else...
in the catalogue of chesky, telarc, delos and so on.
where i can listen a perfection in ratio direct sound/reverberation and perfect stereo image.
i will use them as reference, or better....to know what it is the standard.
alessandro.
There are a few of my CDs available that are pure two microphone recordings:-



John Lenehan - Satie - pair of MKH 20, Steinway Grand, solo piano, Sony PCM-F1 (recorded in the 1990's, but still one of my favourite recordings).


Thurston Clarinet Quartet



Clarinet Masquerade



Clarinet Carnival

The above two recorded with a single MS pair of MKH 30/40



I have also done several recordings for Richard Meyrick (middle photo shows the set-up for 2-5, Neumann mics. used for the CD, MKH 20s were back-up)

The first 5 listed are all mine, as well as the Chopin Nocturnes and the Chelsea Festival CD (though I did not record the orchestral work on the first CD).

The solo piano works on the first 5 Richard Meyrick CDs are a stereo pair of Neumann KM 183-D digital mics. The Nocturnes and Chelsea Festival CDs were a stereo pair of MKH 20s.

All the Richard Meyrick CDs were unadulterated - no messing, just the recording edited.

I did not edit the John Lenehan and Thurston Clarinet Quartet CDs - I know they were pure 2-microphone recordings, but I did not edit and master them. There was no compression, artificial reverb or anything else on the Richard Meyrick CDs I mastered.

I hope this is useful.
#6
25th September 2010
Old 25th September 2010
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John, are those Senns top address?

weird seeing them point straight up that way!!! course ive never used them so.
#7
26th September 2010
Old 26th September 2010
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[QUOTE=Teddy Ray;5826578]GOTYA! a man after my own heart there...

Jazz at the pawnshop-- two mics




Sources list that "Jazz" was recorded with 4 or 5 mics.
#8
26th September 2010
Old 26th September 2010
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[QUOTE=Brackish;5827181]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray View Post
GOTYA! a man after my own heart there...

Jazz at the pawnshop-- two mics




Sources list that "Jazz" was recorded with 4 or 5 mics.

You are right. I just re-read the liner notes.

e producer and record company owner Jacob Boethius kept a watching eye on the proceedings. One microphone pair spaced 20 cm apart was responsible for the main pick-up, with a couple of microphones placed to register the "live" atmosphere of the Pawnshop jazz club and a few discrete support mikes - all recorded on to a pair of two-track Nagra tape recorders by Gert Palmcratz in the restaurant kitchen! All

#9
26th September 2010
Old 26th September 2010
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pure stereo cd as reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray
John, are those Senns top address?

weird seeing them point straight up that way!!! course ive never used them so.
It's the Neumann KM 183-D that are pointing up.

This is because the 183 is a diffuse field omni with a treble boost. I was using them in the near field, about 2m from the piano, so they would have been too bright.

If you look at the polar pattern of omnis, you will see that the treble drops off with angle (due to the physical size of the mic.). I calculated that at 90 degrees the frequency response would be flat. So I used them vertical to get a flat response from the piano.

I did try them at 45 degrees first, but they were still too bright and vertical was best.

On my recent piano recording I used the 131 heads, which are flat, but these were not available for the KM-D when I started the sessions.

Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz
#10
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
  #10
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Just wanted to bump this old thread, I recently discovered MA recordings and have been blown away by the quality of the sound and performances on that label! Everything sounds so natural and real, and you really get the feeling of being at the performance. Does anyone know more about the mics that they use?

Listening to their recordings actually made me start trying to use A-B omnis a lot more, even in situations like jazz/improvised music where the tendency is to multi-track. So far it's been working very well for both me and my clients, and I can carry the entire set-up in one trip!
#11
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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At this site:
Webbshop - Studio Blue

you can buy this CD:
Värmlands Nations Kör

Which is one of my favourites. 2ch AB choir recording.

I like it as much as Cantate Domino.


/Peter
#12
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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My orchestral AB pair only recording is the Maazel/Pittsburgh/Respighi disk, Sony SNYC 66843. Just two mics, "perfect" sonics. Playing is first rate also.

Primus inter pares pure organ recording is the 2 disk set of Franck organ works by Jean Guillou played on the St Eustache grand organ in Paris, originally on Dorian label and still available, but there is also a cheaper 3 disk reissue which should be just a straight copy, with the inaugural concert thrown in.

Thread about the Guillou set: Anyone have info on "Organ Spectacular"??
#13
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accurate View Post
Just wanted to bump this old thread, I recently discovered MA recordings and have been blown away by the quality of the sound and performances on that label! Everything sounds so natural and real, and you really get the feeling of being at the performance. Does anyone know more about the mics that they use?

Listening to their recordings actually made me start trying to use A-B omnis a lot more, even in situations like jazz/improvised music where the tendency is to multi-track. So far it's been working very well for both me and my clients, and I can carry the entire set-up in one trip!
I love their sound, too. I discovered them through this recording: MA Recordings and for quite some time thought this is the most magnificent sounding record ever, I lost some of my initial enthusiasm since I heard a lot of other great recordings, but still - MA have a purist approach that WORKS.

They use "audiophile" logic, which would make a lot of people around here cringe, on top with esoteric cables, etc. But the fact is - their recordings consistently sound outstanding whatever their philosophy or esoteric mythical thinking behind it might be! I am in favor of "mythical thinking" if it yields such results, despite all the nerds around these forums trying to "reason" us into mediocrity.

They use DPA omni capsule in a heavy customized mic and also all other equipment is custom made. All their recordings are pure minimalist two spaced omnis recordings: MA Recordings
#14
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
My orchestral AB pair only recording is the Maazel/Pittsburgh/Respighi disk, Sony SNYC 66843. Just two mics, "perfect" sonics. Playing is first rate also.

Primus inter pares pure organ recording is the 2 disk set of Franck organ works by Jean Guillou played on the St Eustache grand organ in Paris, originally on Dorian label and still available, but there is also a cheaper 3 disk reissue which should be just a straight copy, with the inaugural concert thrown in.

Thread about the Guillou set: Anyone have info on "Organ Spectacular"??
Wow, you recorded that album? I just went to check it out and bought it a moment ago! Sounds great, the music is lovely for the upcoming spring months and I don't doubt the performers... I don't have anything by that composer in my collection yet and this will be a most welcome addition. I am also amazed that you can get such quality CDs for 5$ these days...

P.S. Would you care to share which mics, what position, preamps and since it is an older 90's recording - was it still tape (Nagra maybe?) or digital?
#15
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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A really cool one to listen to is Telarc's recording of the complete Brahms Symphonies with the Scottish Chamber Orchastra and Sir Charles Mackerras.

Recorded with a single pair of Neumann M50b and a two channel Esoteric Audio Researsch mic pre.
#16
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
Wow, you recorded that album? I just went to check it out and bought it a moment ago! Sounds great, the music is lovely for the upcoming spring months and I don't doubt the performers... I don't have anything by that composer in my collection yet and this will be a most welcome addition. I am also amazed that you can get such quality CDs for 5$ these days...

P.S. Would you care to share which mics, what position, preamps and since it is an older 90's recording - was it still tape (Nagra maybe?) or digital?
Sorry, unfortunate choice of words: not my recording in the sense that I did it, only that I have it... (darn, the glory I missed...). I think the booklet tells about the recording, a pair of omni DPAs behind & above the conductor, digital recording (20 bit master I think, Sony style at that time), if my memory serves. You'll find out soon enough.
#17
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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#18
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
  #18
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Ah, the holy grail of a "pure stereo" recording...
A lot of the the CDs I really love are, it turns out, not so pure. Jazz at the Pawnshop it turns out was a compination of stereo pairs and spots. David Chesky's recordings are wonderful but usually involve a Soundfield mic and sometimes spots.

I think the recordings of Chris Burmajster stand out as some of the best "pure stereo" recordings I have heard.

Innocent Ear Home Page
#19
13th March 2012
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#20
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
I love their sound, too. I discovered them through this recording: MA Recordings and for quite some time thought this is the most magnificent sounding record ever, I lost some of my initial enthusiasm since I heard a lot of other great recordings, but still - MA have a purist approach that WORKS.

They use "audiophile" logic, which would make a lot of people around here cringe, on top with esoteric cables, etc. But the fact is - their recordings consistently sound outstanding whatever their philosophy or esoteric mythical thinking behind it might be! I am in favor of "mythical thinking" if it yields such results, despite all the nerds around these forums trying to "reason" us into mediocrity.

They use DPA omni capsule in a heavy customized mic and also all other equipment is custom made. All their recordings are pure minimalist two spaced omnis recordings: MA Recordings
Todd Garfunkle (MA Recordings) does good work over in Japan. Todd has used my mic preamps before on several releases. He used a matched set of B+K 4006's. Marty Kristal and Miroslav Tadik are also featured on some releases. Most of these are recorded in a wooden concert hall in the Japanese alps, it's a very fine sounding room.

Some releases have a 3d quality to them. On "Further Attempts" track #4, the bowed bass rocks back and forth, with a high quality playback system you can hear the forward/backwards movement.

Todd is now using that Korg 2000 portable DSD recorder, not my favorite recording medium. I did rebuild it for him, but the ADC side is lacking compared to his earlier releases.
#21
13th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Todd Garfunkle (MA Recordings) does good work over in Japan. Todd has used my mic preamps before on several releases. He used a matched set of B+K 4006's. Marty Kristal and Miroslav Tadik are also featured on some releases. Most of these are recorded in a wooden concert hall in the Japanese alps, it's a very fine sounding room.

Some releases have a 3d quality to them. On "Further Attempts" track #4, the bowed bass rocks back and forth, with a high quality playback system you can hear the forward/backwards movement.

Todd is now using that Korg 2000 portable DSD recorder, not my favorite recording medium. I did rebuild it for him, but the ADC side is lacking compared to his earlier releases.
Respect!

Yes, very 3D feeling about their releases, but that's true of most well done spaced omni recordings. That album "Krushevo" with Tadic and Stefanovski was recorded in a very interesting looking and very reberberant monument in Macedonia and the two guitars sound otherworldy, I would even say - bordering on kitch - so sweet. I saw them live a few times with this acoustic duo and they are great and I even played percussion in a contemporary "fusion" big band where Stefanovski was guest soloist on electric guitar.
Zem
#22
13th March 2012
Old 13th March 2012
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Last edited by Zem; 13th March 2012 at 10:46 PM.. Reason: Coryell/Bailey/WHITE, not Chambers...
#23
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
If you can expand your horizon to three mics, look for the CD version of the TelArc Digital release of Frederick Fennell/The Cleveland Symphonic Winds release of Holst, Handel and Bach. Three transformerless Schoeps SKM-52U omnis in Severance Hall (if you can score a copy of the audiophile LP, there are nice, big pictures, as well as being perhaps the best sounding piece of vinyl I know of) through a Studer 169 console to "the Soundstream Digital Recorder", then, after the edit, output directly to a Neumann half-speed cutting system. No limiting, filtering, compression, equalization or low frequency crossover at either acquisition or mastering. Monitoring was through ADS BC-8s.

Truly a wonderful LP (I don't have the CD version)... with one of the most complete write-ups I've ever seen. Rare... but worth looking for. The bass drum provided a fundamental at 32Hz, and is startlingly reproduced... if your playback system can handle it.

Here's a link to the CD... Amazon.com: Holst: Suite No.1 & 2/Handel: Music for the Royal Fireworks/Bach: Fantasia in G: Johann Sebastian Bach, George Frederick Handel, Gustav Holst, Frederick Fennell, Cleveland Symphonic Winds: Music

And a link to the (used) LP: Telarc - Fennell Lp 1978 - Holst Suites For Sale | AudiogoN

It was a killer demo disc in 1978... and still is, 30+ years later. Wonderful performances make it a joy to listen to, as well.

Pardon me going a little off topic but that really is the most impressive recorded bass drum sound I have ever encountered.

In his later years Fred Fennel used to come regularly to the University of Connecticut for week long stays to converse, conduct, and hang out with our conducting grad students. He gave us color copies of his annotated scores of many of the standard works for wind ensemble (worth their weight in gold) and on each visit would allow us to record extensive, sometimes day long interviews concerning these works (worth their weight in what? diamonds?).

The famous bass drum "hit" in the Holst recording was of special interest to him. He was, of course, a percussionist and every couple of years we would line up all our concert bass drums (somehow we have a lot of them) and Fred go from drum to drum with our students doing a bass drum tuning clinic. Man, could he make a bass drum speak!

For the recording with the Cleveland Winds Fred hand built his own bass drum mallets. They are chamois covered heads, fairly small and hard, built on bamboo sticks. Years ago he presented them to Jeffrey Renshaw, our Wind Ensemble conductor, as a present and they reside hanging on the wall of Jeff's study affixed to a plaque detailing their significance. They are still used when Jeff performs that Holst suite and it is considered a high honor here for a student to be entrusted with those mallets and that part assignment.
#24
19th March 2012
Old 19th March 2012
  #24
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This thread is great, just when I was finished buying CDs for a while...

Btw, on the Larry Coryell, does anyone else find the low end a bit thin? It sounds great otherwise, but the bass/kick drum seem to lack some body, at least on my system.
#25
21st March 2012
Old 21st March 2012
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If you are looking for "pure stereo" don't forget many of the Dorian CDs done by Brian Peters and a pair of modded 4003s.

Rich
#26
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #26
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I can confirm many CD's to choose from including a January session of the Baltimore Consort that will blow you away in the sound staging possible with just a properly placed stereo mic. Many older recordings that I can confirm or explain the mic'ng choices of the time.

BP
#27
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zem View Post
Classical : Malher's Symphonies (the 5th especialy, I think) by the Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra/Eliahu Inbal (Denon). One pair of B&k 4006.
I'm almost certain that the only recording of the Mahler symphonies in that set that was actually clean two-track [4006] was the 1st Symphony - all other had spots to some extent.

::
Mads
Zem
#28
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #28
Zem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mljung View Post
I'm almost certain that the only recording of the Mahler symphonies in that set that was actually clean two-track [4006] was the 1st Symphony - all other had spots to some extent.

::
Mads
You're probably right, the Inbal's Cds I owned were lost when I moved from France to Belgium.

I certainly remember that only one was two mics only, I thought it was the fifth, but, again, you're probably right... If somebody can get his hands on the original cds, I think it was mentioned somewhere in the liner notes.

Regards

Z
#29
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
Pardon me going a little off topic but that really is the most impressive recorded bass drum sound I have ever encountered.

In his later years Fred Fennel used to come regularly to the University of Connecticut for week long stays to converse, conduct, and hang out with our conducting grad students. He gave us color copies of his annotated scores of many of the standard works for wind ensemble (worth their weight in gold) and on each visit would allow us to record extensive, sometimes day long interviews concerning these works (worth their weight in what? diamonds?).

The famous bass drum "hit" in the Holst recording was of special interest to him. He was, of course, a percussionist and every couple of years we would line up all our concert bass drums (somehow we have a lot of them) and Fred go from drum to drum with our students doing a bass drum tuning clinic. Man, could he make a bass drum speak!

For the recording with the Cleveland Winds Fred hand built his own bass drum mallets. They are chamois covered heads, fairly small and hard, built on bamboo sticks. Years ago he presented them to Jeffrey Renshaw, our Wind Ensemble conductor, as a present and they reside hanging on the wall of Jeff's study affixed to a plaque detailing their significance. They are still used when Jeff performs that Holst suite and it is considered a high honor here for a student to be entrusted with those mallets and that part assignment.

Thank you so much for going off topic; wonderful and informative!
#30
23rd March 2012
Old 23rd March 2012
  #30
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