Nagra LB storage: Internal, CF Card or USB - Any difference?

[Bechstein]

Hi Nagraphiles,

Now that we can use the Nagra to record straight into a simple USB pendrive, is there any reason to purchase an expensive -I mean the good ones- Compact Flash card?

I've been using a pendrive these days to make some test recordings and, at least, I can say that it is very comfortable -you simple plug and unplug it from the Nagra to the computer and viceversa and you have no mess, no need of cables, nor adapters, etc... I think it's simple, small, easy and inexpensive, but:

Do they provide the same quality?

Are USB pendrives reliable?

Should we expect any kind of trouble when recording into a pendrive?

I don't know, aren't USB 2.0 transference rates much higher than the highest of the CF cards??

It looks as simple that I'm amazed...

Thanks for the help!

Greetings.

[John Willett]

Personally I would use a SanDisk CF card.

1) SanDisk are the best and most reliable (I have an Extreme 60MB/s in my Nagra VI for back-up).

2) in the LB the CF card slots in the side and is therefore internal - a USB pen drive is hanging off the side and is easy to knock and disconnect in the middle of a recording.

So, for safety alone, I would use a CF card.


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[Bechstein]

...a USB pen drive is hanging off the side and is easy to knock and disconnect in the middle of a recording...

I didn't try the Nagra outside, so I couldn't think about this yet... But you are in reason, John.

Anyway, in terms of "pure" quality, is there any difference between the three storage modes? I guess the answer is no...

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Bechstein

Anyway, in terms of "pure" quality, is there any difference between the three storage modes? I guess the answer is no...

You are recording digits, so there should be no difference in raw quality.

The difference will be in the reliability of the device and connector.

A good solid connection that makes good contact and can't move is more reliable than one which is free to move and is easily knocked.


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[Plush]

Record to Hard drive and CF card.

Back up to USB stick if necessary.

Don't goof around.

By the way the correct greeting for Nagrists is "Nagrists, " not Nagraphiles.

If you are addressing a real pro Nagrist then please address him or her as an
"Absolute Nagrist."

with thanks,

Plushlifkdl;sahfkj;doasjfl;sa/

[Bechstein]

Originally Posted by Plush

By the way the correct greeting for Nagrists is "Nagrists, " not Nagraphiles. If you are addressing a real pro Nagrist then please address him or her as an "Absolute Nagrist."

In fact I was talking to all the "nagra lovers" in general, not only to the Nagrists and/or the Absolute Nagrists...

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Bechstein]

Originally Posted by Plush

Record to Hard drive and CF card.

Back up to USB stick if necessary.

Don't goof around.

Could you please get to the heart of the matter and try to explain me why a pendrive is not a reliable choice for recording, -apart from that said by John Willet?

Thank you very much.

[miker71]

I'm pretty sure the solid state chips used in a lot of modern media and devices are the same.

Personally I would use the CF card because it is out of the way and possibly subject to higher quality assaurance than a common-all-garden USB stick.

I'm still shocked that modern devices still use Microsoft's non-journalled FAT filesystem when many Open Source journalled alternatives exist. Though, in the case of the LB, it seems like the 2GB internal buffer may act as a journal of sorts. It's not that FAT is bad, it's just easy to corrupt if not ejected properly from the host device.

IIRC, Zaxcom have their own proprietry filesystem which is prone to it's own problems.

[John Willett]

Using a CF card in the LB - it is hot-swappable without losing data.

So if you are stuck with small cards for a long recording you press the hot-swap button, remove the card and insert a new one and the recording continues without any data loss at all.

[mosrite]

By the way the correct greeting for Nagrists is "Nagrists, " not Nagraphiles.

If you are addressing a real pro Nagrist then please address him or her as an
"Absolute Nagrist."

Plush you kill me.

On topic: I have recorded to both the internal memory and a sandisk CF card. Go for a good CF card, less likely to lose data and stupidly cheap these days when you think about it. USB makes no sense except to data dump.

Sincerely, Mosrite Nagrist Absolute

[Bechstein]

Hi there,

Although in the manual it is said that when using an external HDD for recording, this must be self-powered, yesterday I bought a "Samsung S2 Portable" USB powered HDD (so cheap, by the way), I formatted it from the LB, attempted to record at 24/192 and... It works.

thumbsup

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by miker71

I'm pretty sure the solid state chips used in a lot of modern media and devices are the same.

I don't disagree at all, but could you tell us what you're sureness is based on?

Originally Posted by miker71

Personally I would use the CF card because it is out of the way and possibly subject to higher quality assaurance than a common-all-garden USB stick.

Well, SD and CF cards are no less common than a USB stick. The only comparison one could make is a card of a certain specification to a "stick" of the same manufacturer and same specification. And you've already stated your assumption that the guts of the two genres are the same.

I don't disagree, but could you tell us why you think CF cards are subject to higher quality assurance protocols? Is this true across the board, or more applicable to specific manufacturers, etc.? I ask because I haven't seen any information on this issue.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by mosrite

.............less likely to lose data ............... USB makes no sense except to data dump.USB makes no sense except to data dump.

Why? I don't disagree, but I am curious about these statements. Especially about loss of data. I've never lost data on a "stick" card.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Personally I would use a SanDisk CF card.

1) SanDisk are the best and most reliable (I have an Extreme 60MB/s in my Nagra VI for back-up).

SanDisk is my first and only choice, too, but can one say that with certainty? (That SanDisks are best.)

Originally Posted by John Willett

2) in the LB the CF card slots in the side and is therefore internal - a USB pen drive is hanging off the side and is easy to knock and disconnect in the middle of a recording.

Pin failures do occur in CF and SD device slots and seem related to the frequency of card insertion/removal.

I agree there are some practical advantages to using less exposed CF/SD card/connectors rather than a protruding device, but if the user doesn't have to be concerned with that, I'm not sure about disadvantages of a USB "thumb" device. Not too much different than using an external USB or FW drive, no?

The USB "thumb drives" that I have are several years old, and there hasn't been a single fault. They are heavily used, and come from a variety of manufacturers, including one from SanDisk. I've played a little with the SanDisk with streaming data. 'Not exactly a sample on which to base a conclusion, though.