How can I get usable dialog in a public restaurant?

Max H. · 16th September 2010

Hi Guys-

I need to record dialog for a radio show in a busy restaurant. I only have one go to record the talent. I'm using Countryman lav's and would love some tips on how to get usable dialog from lav's without an obscene amount of background chatter and kitchen noise. Hopeless?

Thanks for your time.

philper · 16th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max H.

Hi Guys-

I need to record dialog for a radio show in a busy restaurant. I only have one go to record the talent. I'm using Countryman lav's and would love some tips on how to get usable dialog from lav's without an obscene amount of background chatter and kitchen noise. Hopeless?

Thanks for your time.

The obvious ways are best: pick a time when the restaurant is not busy or closed, try to seat the talent away from other diners, ask the other diners to be quiet as politely as possible. The lav mic will help, but only a little re BG noise like that. You might gain a few db S/N in post by various tricks, but not a really huge amount. I'd recommend being straight with your clients about what the issues are, and if they insist on going ahead do the best you can.

phil p

mpdonahue · 17th September 2010

The only solution I know of is to use one of the STC (Coles) "Lip Mics". These give tremendous rejection, but are unwieldy and look horrible. You did say it was radio......
Other than that, Phil has the right Idea.
All the best,
-mark

**Remoteness** · 17th September 2010

LOL Believe it or not, I just saw a Lip Mic on TV not too long ago, but I cannot recall the show.

I own two or three of those mics; they work well in high volume scenarios.

I was going to say, you could use (good old) cardioid handhelds. Make sure they're "eating the mic" and you'll be just fine.

For radio and in that situation, I'd take a handheld mic over a lav every time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpdonahue

The only solution I know of is to use one of the STC (Coles) "Lip Mics". These give tremendous rejection, but are unwieldy and look horrible. You did say it was radio......
Other than that, Phil has the right Idea.
All the best,
-mark

DannyL · 17th September 2010

Which Countryman Lavs are you using?

You might try using an Isomax II H. I have used them to isolate Announcers during live NHL games for TV. They work pretty well.

Regards;
Danny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max H.

Hi Guys-

I need to record dialog for a radio show in a busy restaurant. I only have one go to record the talent. I'm using Countryman lav's and would love some tips on how to get usable dialog from lav's without an obscene amount of background chatter and kitchen noise. Hopeless?

Thanks for your time.

Don S · 17th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I was going to say, you could use (good old) cardioid handhelds. Make sure they're "eating the mic" and you'll be just fine.

For radio and in that situation, I'd take a handheld mic over a lav every time!

SM58's have bailed my sorry butt out a few sticky situations. They ARE still useful!

aracu · 17th September 2010

Don't use lavs. It's radio and you don't need to hide the mics. Use
directional mics, up close, with pop screens. Steve has a good idea
with the hand helds.

chris319 · 17th September 2010

One word: headworn.

Headworn Microphone, Microphone Headsets from Full Compass

Quote:

ask the other diners to be quiet as politely as possible.

You can't be serious.

Thomas W. Bethe · 17th September 2010

I use to do a radio show for a local FM classical station. It was done from a local restaurant and was done during Sunday morning brunch. I used a good quality cardioid microphone for the announcer with the rear of the microphone facing the audience. It was about 4 inched from the announcer's lips with a wind screen and it worked extremely well.

Best of luck!

mixedupsteve · 17th September 2010

You could get one of these and use your mics.
Sennheiser NB2 BEIGE Headmic Adapter (Beige) | Full Compass

You can make booms yourself with floral wire also.

Ozpeter · 18th September 2010

I had to record an interview in a restaurant a while back - I attached the lavalier mics to the interviewer and the musician but after the first few minutes of animated conversation, they fell off... so I just handheld them close and the result was noticably better (but my arms ached by the end...)

At the start I failed to notice that we were sitting close to a birdcage with a little bird therein. After the first disaster with the mics falling off, then the bird starts up. But then the musician (the wonderful Iva Bittova) started singing along with the bird, which made great radio later! The management were very helpful in turning off the background music player, and even after a few moments of birdsong quietly coming across and taking the cage to the other side of the room. It's worth getting them on board at the outset. You might even score a free coffee.

apple-q · 18th September 2010

why use lav mics if it's a radio show

Whitecat · 18th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remoteness

LOL Believe it or not, I just saw a Lip Mic on TV not too long ago, but I cannot recall the show.

Golf!!! Always golf!!!

At least on the BBC anyway. They do look just hilarious...

Ozpeter · 18th September 2010

Quote:

why use lav mics if it's a radio show

More discreet in a public place.

**Remoteness** · 18th September 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitecat

Golf!!! Always golf!!!

At least on the BBC anyway. They do look just hilarious...

Nah, it was some award show or variety show of some sort.
Could it have been the VMAs?

No wait; I believe it was the BBC America show called "Top Gear."

sdog · 5th October 2010

I also would reject the lav mic idea in favor of the most directional mic I could get my hands on. Not sure which countryman you're using, but many lavs are omni-directional and will hence pick up the clattering plates in the kitchen and jabbering diners just as happily as they pick up your subject.

If you must use a lav in order to be discrete, try a directional lav and place it well. Consider using the lav mic as a plant mic rather than on the body. May or may not work better. You can probably control the direction better that way, but you will probably not be able to get as close, so your mileage may vary.

The bad news is that there really is no magic bullet to eliminate background noise. Phil's excellent suggestions, to paraphrase, "minimize the effects of background noise by minimizing the actual background noise", should be your best, first tactic.

If you can't control that, then your two second best weapons to minimize the effects are "proximity" and "direction". You can use these weapons to make your situation "better". Only the reality of the environment will determine whether you can make it "good enough".

Good luck.

16th September 2010	#1
Max H. Gear interested Joined: Aug 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 16 Thread Starter	How can I get usable dialog in a public restaurant? Hi Guys- I need to record dialog for a radio show in a busy restaurant. I only have one go to record the talent. I'm using Countryman lav's and would love some tips on how to get usable dialog from lav's without an obscene amount of background chatter and kitchen noise. Hopeless? Thanks for your time.

17th September 2010	#9
Thomas W. Bethe Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Oberlin, Ohio Posts: 3,273 1 Review written	I use to do a radio show for a local FM classical station. It was done from a local restaurant and was done during Sunday morning brunch. I used a good quality cardioid microphone for the announcer with the rear of the microphone facing the audience. It was about 4 inched from the announcer's lips with a wind screen and it worked extremely well. Best of luck! __________________ -TOM- Thomas W. Bethel Managing Director Acoustik Musik, Ltd. Room with a View Productions Oberlin, OH 44074 www.acoustikmusik.com Doing what you love is freedom. Loving what you do is happiness.

17th September 2010	#10
mixedupsteve Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Chestertown MD USA Posts: 969	You could get one of these and use your mics. Sennheiser NB2 BEIGE Headmic Adapter (Beige) \| Full Compass You can make booms yourself with floral wire also. __________________ Steve

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17th September 2010	#3
mpdonahue Gear addict Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 495	The only solution I know of is to use one of the STC (Coles) "Lip Mics". These give tremendous rejection, but are unwieldy and look horrible. You did say it was radio...... Other than that, Phil has the right Idea. All the best, -mark

17th September 2010	#7
aracu Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 850	Don't use lavs. It's radio and you don't need to hide the mics. Use directional mics, up close, with pop screens. Steve has a good idea with the hand helds.

18th September 2010	#11
Ozpeter Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 624	I had to record an interview in a restaurant a while back - I attached the lavalier mics to the interviewer and the musician but after the first few minutes of animated conversation, they fell off... so I just handheld them close and the result was noticably better (but my arms ached by the end...) At the start I failed to notice that we were sitting close to a birdcage with a little bird therein. After the first disaster with the mics falling off, then the bird starts up. But then the musician (the wonderful Iva Bittova) started singing along with the bird, which made great radio later! The management were very helpful in turning off the background music player, and even after a few moments of birdsong quietly coming across and taking the cage to the other side of the room. It's worth getting them on board at the outset. You might even score a free coffee.

18th September 2010	#12
apple-q Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 823	why use lav mics if it's a radio show

5th October 2010	#16
sdog Gear interested Joined: Sep 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 6	I also would reject the lav mic idea in favor of the most directional mic I could get my hands on. Not sure which countryman you're using, but many lavs are omni-directional and will hence pick up the clattering plates in the kitchen and jabbering diners just as happily as they pick up your subject. If you must use a lav in order to be discrete, try a directional lav and place it well. Consider using the lav mic as a plant mic rather than on the body. May or may not work better. You can probably control the direction better that way, but you will probably not be able to get as close, so your mileage may vary. The bad news is that there really is no magic bullet to eliminate background noise. Phil's excellent suggestions, to paraphrase, "minimize the effects of background noise by minimizing the actual background noise", should be your best, first tactic. If you can't control that, then your two second best weapons to minimize the effects are "proximity" and "direction". You can use these weapons to make your situation "better". Only the reality of the environment will determine whether you can make it "good enough". Good luck.