Midas VeniceF-series

[SDB_12]

Question:

Any issues with hooking up another external pre/eq unit to the inserts on these boards, and recording back into the DAW via FW?

I just bought an Aurora GTQ2 and plan to use it via the Midas insert points for both the pre and eq for tracking and mixing.

[potslutz]

i'm curios about the question above too,can you bypass the pre's on the midas?

[PlugHead]

I can't add much to this thread as yet, but I've recently logged some hrs on my F16 for tracking the past 2 sessions. The F16 is paired with PT 9.0.6 on a MacMini server (quad core 2 Ghz) recording to either ext. FW drive or onto the 2nd int. drive.

With upgraded SW/firmware, the Midas works reliably and sounds good. However, it's pre's do not sound near as detailed as my O/B racks (Hardy/Buzz/API/Neve) tho they do a respectable job, they cannot replace hi-end pre's. The EQ's are very useable tho heavy-handed: a little goes a long way.

All in all, for the venue I have it in, it is a very good match. The live sound aspect is perfect for my needs, and being able to record live shows is a wonderful asset to my room. it would be nice if Midas were to future-proof this board by adding different swappable cards to replace FW400 but I'm not holding my breath.

All in all, a happy camper here - still need to delve deeper into the routing and the full abilities of this board, but in my limited experience and time with it has shown it to be a very solid board and I think a wise investment...

[lobit]

how is the headroom on the ad converters? looked at the specs in the manual and it says 105db on the ad converter. do you find youreself watching the levels to the mix bus to avoid clipping?

[scruffydog]

Quite a delicate situation..at least according to the meters...the output from Logic and ableton are pretty fierce.
So it is not perfectly scaled by any means...if that makes any technical sense?!?!
But..having said that....in general it is very workable and sounds very warm but punchy and clean.
The conversion is very good...i have not had any clipping even up in the reds.

[intriaudio]

So I have now been a proud owner of a veniceF24 for about 4 months now and am personally very happy with it. I use it primarily for live use with the functionality as a recording mixer as well. After doing a lot of research (and listening) I am curious as to why midas only went to a sampling rate of 44.1 and 48k. The installed chip is a DICE JR. and is capable of a much higher sampling rate. Maybe I am wrong here, but just wanted to throw it out there and see what everyone thought.

I found the specs here:
http://www.tctechnologies.tc/downloa...short_spec.pdf

Also, would anyone know how to incorporate say a lynx aurora into using this board as well as perhaps an ssl comp for main mix mastering work?

Thanks and I hope everyone is enjoying the board as much as I do !

[lozion]

Originally Posted by intriaudio

Also, would anyone know how to incorporate say a lynx aurora into using this board as well as perhaps an ssl comp for main mix mastering work?

Thanks and I hope everyone is enjoying the board as much as I do !

Good questions, what are the clocking options on this desk, does it have WC?

Is there a software driver with routing options, etc?

[jude]

Originally Posted by intriaudio

So I have now been a proud owner of a veniceF24 for about 4 months now and am personally very happy with it. I use it primarily for live use with the functionality as a recording mixer as well. After doing a lot of research (and listening) I am curious as to why midas only went to a sampling rate of 44.1 and 48k. The installed chip is a DICE JR. and is capable of a much higher sampling rate. Maybe I am wrong here, but just wanted to throw it out there and see what everyone thought.

I found the specs here:
http://www.tctechnologies.tc/downloa...short_spec.pdf

Also, would anyone know how to incorporate say a lynx aurora into using this board as well as perhaps an ssl comp for main mix mastering work?

Thanks and I hope everyone is enjoying the board as much as I do !

Perhaps to limit bandwidth? on the biggest version you can stream 32 channels each way yeah?

[lolsixteen]

Originally Posted by lozion

Good questions, what are the clocking options on this desk, does it have WC?

Is there a software driver with routing options, etc?

yes of course, it's the same driver on the neve genesys, very simple very stable.
with the midas firmware you can choose between 44,1 or 48 khz, the 24 bit is fix. No WC options, just a firewire 400 pin on the desk.
you can make on update firmware from the driver.
for the routing options it's inside your sequencer.

[DPC]

Just spoke to Karl at Midas in the UK, he said there was absolutely no plans to implement 96k recording in the F series.
I use the Midas F32 and was really hoping that thunderbolt or higher sample rates would be an option in the near future, it looks like it defiantly is not.

[scruffydog]

That no further update is planned for the F's connectivity comes as no surprise....if i think about what i get for the money....i see no real need to improve it in a hurry.
For those with more cash and higher requirements there are plenty of other options.
Midas were very direct in who they were aiming at and the focus was on getting the product right.
I think they achieved that very well indeed.

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by intriaudio

So I have now been a proud owner of a veniceF24 for about 4 months now and am personally very happy with it. I use it primarily for live use with the functionality as a recording mixer as well. After doing a lot of research (and listening) I am curious as to why midas only went to a sampling rate of 44.1 and 48k. The installed chip is a DICE JR. and is capable of a much higher sampling rate. Maybe I am wrong here, but just wanted to throw it out there and see what everyone thought.

I found the specs here:
http://www.tctechnologies.tc/downloa...short_spec.pdf

Also, would anyone know how to incorporate say a lynx aurora into using this board as well as perhaps an ssl comp for main mix mastering work?

Thanks and I hope everyone is enjoying the board as much as I do !

Well I got a great deal and bit the bullet-
I just picked up an f32 for my 2nd mixing/mastering room.I have a 30 channel Trident in my main control room w/SSL converters for tracking bands or whatever,but the summing on it is less than desirable.
I plan on using the Midas as a mix down board primarily using the da converters and then capturing the mix thru the main outs to my 2 buss then to a UA 2192 or Hedd at 88.2 or 96/24.That way I am recording at a lower sample rate,of which I will be able to use the Midas for overdubs also,and then capturing at a higher sample rate with a different computer.

The only thing to watch for at the lower sample rate is that any high frequency info(OH's etc) is going thru plugins that do oversampling to prevent any aliasing.

You can always use your other converters at a higher sample rate with this board.That is what is great about this board,just use it like an analog board if you want.
It would have been nice to have an external clock input on it.

[Scott003]

I've read through this and haven't found a definite answer: can you run digital inserts to a DAW off of individual channels? Some of you guys found the latency to be pretty low, so it'd be all good? I'm lookin to run a compressor on 4 or 6 channels, perhaps a buss too, is it possible? And the deal-maker that'll have my boss buying this for me is if I can control my DAW (on smacbook pro) via iPad.... that'd be tits, studiolive's got nothin lol

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by Scott003

I've read through this and haven't found a definite answer: can you run digital inserts to a DAW off of individual channels? Some of you guys found the latency to be pretty low, so it'd be all good? I'm lookin to run a compressor on 4 or 6 channels, perhaps a buss too, is it possible? And the deal-maker that'll have my boss buying this for me is if I can control my DAW (on smacbook pro) via iPad.... that'd be tits, studiolive's got nothin lol

If you read the section about the software,it has a mixer that runs parallel with all the input channels to do digital inserts,so you would have to run a buss back into a channel.The other thing I couldn't tell if this was a function of propellerhead or standalone.

But either way the answer is yes.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[krheatman]

Read the firewire section,you can do all that and more .Don't have to use propeller

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[Scott003]

Originally Posted by krheatman

But either way the answer is yes.

awesome, I read the FW part of the manual but wanted to double-check with you slutz who actually have one..... Hopefully I'll be getting one soon, all I need is remote gain riding, so iPad controlling macbook/ PT on inserts is a win-win-win, considering it'd be Midas sound instead of Yamaha digital or presonus.. score. And I can leave my rack at home, travelin with a mixer and a mac. Now to convince the boss..... lawl

[scruffydog]

Originally Posted by Scott003

And I can leave my rack at home, travelin with a mixer and a mac. Now to convince the boss..... lawl

get a really good flight case..the faders are actually very delicate...

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by scruffydog

get a really good flight case..the faders are actually very delicate...

Mine is staying in my b room which is really dead for mixing/overdubs/recording vocals/acoustic.Hopefully it won't be doing anything remote,but just in case,where is the best deal on a good case?

[scruffydog]

i have not bought a flight case...but i will keep the packaging just in case...

[Philberto12]

Hello I am new to these forums, so sorry if I seem to be hijacking this thread. I have a daft question that may seem simple. I am now a proud owner of a Midas Venice F 32 as of yesterday, bought the whole package, the lights and the flight case. I was using the Venice with Reason 6 today and For some reason or another, I can only hear whats coming out my speakers when I solo the respected channel/s. Is there a way of hearing my tracks un-solo'd? I mean I've routed the audio to the stereo button in the routing section, then pulled up the red stereo fader, I can see lights bouncing but can't hear any audio, unlike I say I solo that specific channel. I've also tried routing to groups and even pressed the green firewire button on the top of each channel, turned the local monitor section up, and yes I did meter before monitoring.
Also in Reason, I've set my preferences to output on all outputs and turned monitoring to internal and external, even tried using the other three options it displays.
Also, I want to know how you can bring an entire mix back using the Venice, cos atm, everything seems to only go to channels one and two, and when I go to the outputs section, I lose channels one and two and then goes three and four five and six etc.
All help will be appreciated
Cheers
Philip

[scruffydog]

hi Philberto 12.
the local outputs differ from the main outputs.
it's a live desk and has a few situations to cater for.
if you plug your speakers (turn the red fader down first) to the main outs of the desk channels will work as you expect.
i think this thread has covered a lot of the F's workarounds and options...
get a cup of tea and have a read through.....not sure about reason..but the audio output device needs to be MIDAS FW in Logic audio prefrences to access the desk...
stupid question but did you install the software ok?
oh....and of course... welcome to Gearslutz!

[krheatman]

See any problem running a mix through one DAW at 44.1 out to the Midas,with say with 20 channels,then coming out analog and returning to a Lynx Aurora/AES16 on 2-4 tracks back into the same computer at 88.2 on another DAW?Would I get any clocking issues on either as long as the 2 are separated DAW applications?

[Philberto12]

Thanks Scruffydog, and yeah I have been reading through this post, this post was the final decider in me getting the desk.
Yeah I managed to install everything ok thank you and yeah, I swapped the local to the main, cos I thought that was gonna be like a control room section, obv not haha.
Also, I now know you can re-route all channels back to each individual channel now, but how come sometimes you need to save a stereo pair for returning audio?
And thanks man, I wouldn't have joined up if I knew I wasn't going to the best advice :D

[scruffydog]

The sterio pair question?
if you mean what I think you mean it is quite simple....
I keep my first two channels of my 24 as my default sterio pair from logic and Ableton.
As i work i then assign tracks to various other single or pairs of channels for external processing via the inserts to help certain tracks.
But a lot of my time is actually spend before then just working 'in the box..only using the desk channels 1+2 for monitoring or even using my Apogee One which takes the 'studio' out of the picture all together.

So my 1+2 are getting a lot of use..and the rest of the desk is more for mixing with the outboard and trying moves with the F's EQ.
I have not actually done any software as AUX stuff myself...i have not worked out why i would need to do this as i have a couple of outboard FX processors that i keep ready to go on my AUX's anyway.
It's nice that this desk has allowed me to straddle both worlds...that of the newer 'in the box' and my old world of stuff i have collected and could never sell anyway..and bring it all into the frame pretty perfectly.


I always notice a pleasant and noticeable lift simply by moving from the Apogee one to two channels on the venice....just a little more of something i was looking for!..but if i get lost...switching back to the Apogee One can help me define errors in my approach.
I could do with a better Interface than the One but it is pretty good..and infinitely better then my previous Digi 001 headphone output..which is what i used to use for direct computer audio monitoring!?!?!?!?!
My ' Coleman Audio LS3 'plays a huge part in making this all possible as i simply have either the desk main out's..or the 'Apogee one' connected to it as i swap between worlds...and my speakers hang off the LS3.

[Philberto12]

Got another quick question about the Venice. Took it out for the very first time last night, and I've never seen so many people drool or stand in the corner over a desk, class feeling to say the least. Went really, really well dB Operasound speakers on the FOH. My question is this, how do you route the desk through Cubase? It worked fine with Logic, but Cubase didnt want to know at all. I went through the device set up window, and saw all the in and outs were all present and correct. Then opened up the VST connections window and went about setting the mono inputs 1-24 and then stereo inputs 25-32, went on the outputs and gave all the outputs and stereo bus. But when I came to record, Cubase didn't want to know, would even record to meter a single bit of audio, where as Logic was simple, an input and a output, click record then it work straight away with no fuss what so ever. Please help haha,
Cheers
Phil

[scruffydog]

what do you expect on a first date?...some desks are old fashioned you know....and say 'no' even if they mean yes!
hope you sort out the problem.....to me it sounds like a set up thing..not knowing what we are doing....happens.

[Jazz.co]

Hello,

I am considering buying a Venice F 24 as a front end in my mixing studio. After looking at all the options it seems this is simply the best one for the money to get analogue summing + faders + EQ.

I have two questions:

First, does anybody have an idea how the VeniceF compares to my current EMU 1820 in terms of quality? I am (as people tend to be) very fond of the 1820, especially the headphone output.

My second question concerns a staged routing concept.

I'd really like to sum my drums through the desk but then bring back the stereo drum track into the computer for combined processing. I then want to bring out the processed stereo drum track through the desk again for final summing through the master bus. Using a latency plugin like voxengo's latency delay I plan to compensate on the remaining channels for the added conversion delay.

Has anyone tried a similar approach? Am I perhaps missing something fundamental which would stop this from working?

I don't think the overall increased latency would be a problem since, even now, I tend to work with around 20ms reported delay and I mainly do mixdowns.

Many thanks!

J.

[jude]

Originally Posted by Philberto12

I can only hear whats coming out my speakers when I solo the respected channel/s. Is there a way of hearing my tracks un-solo'd? I mean I've routed the audio to the stereo button in the routing section, then pulled up the red stereo fader, I can see lights bouncing but can't hear any audio, unlike I say I solo that specific channel....
Cheers
Philip

your monitors should be hooked up to the "local" outputs, this is a live sound version of Control room output. Above the red stereo fader there is a solo button. on this desk you have to solo the main mix for it to appear at the local speaker outputs.

hope this helps

[rockjaune]

Hello,

I'm presently using a Venice 16 since 4 years - the previous generation. I was quite happy with it although it looks like it's getting old. Had to bring it for repair for a general pan problem. Now one channel is badly distorting.
I was wondering if jumping to the new F generation would be worth. Besides the Firewire potential, is the sound of the F much better than the old Venice ?

Thanks !

[scruffydog]

Originally Posted by Jazz.co

Hello,

I am considering buying a Venice F 24 as a front end in my mixing studio. After looking at all the options it seems this is simply the best one for the money to get analogue summing + faders + EQ.

I have two questions:

First, does anybody have an idea how the VeniceF compares to my current EMU 1820 in terms of quality? I am (as people tend to be) very fond of the 1820, especially the headphone output.

My second question concerns a staged routing concept.

I'd really like to sum my drums through the desk but then bring back the stereo drum track into the computer for combined processing. I then want to bring out the processed stereo drum track through the desk again for final summing through the master bus. Using a latency plugin like voxengo's latency delay I plan to compensate on the remaining channels for the added conversion delay.

Has anyone tried a similar approach? Am I perhaps missing something fundamental which would stop this from working?

I don't think the overall increased latency would be a problem since, even now, I tend to work with around 20ms reported delay and I mainly do mixdowns.

Many thanks!

J.

well...the most important thing to know is that the converters are..to my ears...very very good.
the latency in your scenario will be acceptable...and with one pass out..back..and then play back, you will hear phasing with the original...it's very very close even at 512 i/o buffer size in my mac pro.

if you wanna scope it or whatever for fine detail and work out further fine tuning i imagine it will work out more reliably.
but to me it sounds pretty close aready.
as for how it might compare....not sure...but i also run and apogee 2 duet now and swap between them in varios situations.
the big learning curve will be the general gain structure and how the channels respond to the firewire input signal.
the outputs from logic can get a little too hot for me...and in order to work well with the desk i have to understand that it requires a certain respect level wise from the box...what i mean is that i have been getting used to a overall level drop inside the computer so it translates well on my apogee and also has headroom if i switch over to the F.
there is no point slamming every track to max..as on switching to the desk it looks too hot on the meters...i have not heard a break up,,,but know i had to pull back .
anyway...i have a bit of a cold /head ache...so apologies for the ramble and incoherent jumble....