new toy, arrived and functioning!

hollywood_steve · 1st July 2003

I received my new Genex GX9000 over the weekend after some delays in getting my choice of hard drives installed. (recommendation to any potenetial purchasers, let Genex purchase and install the drives....) I haven't had the chance yet to do much more than turn it on and record some sine waves from it's internal signal generator, but this looks like one very powerful and versatile machine. The signal routing is greatly enhanced by the internal 8x2 mixer and the unit's capability of copying to/from the two internal drives. (the second drive can be used as an "overflow" drive or you can record to both drives simultaneously resulting in a completed "safety copy" as soon as you are done recording.)

I'll try to post some more news after I've actually had a chance to use the recorder, but first impressions are very favorable. For something as complex and powerful as this machine, I found the front panel and menu tree to be surprisingly straightforward, even for a complete newbie to digital multitracking. Lets hope enough folks agree so that other companies decide there is money to be made selling DSD compatible equipment.

steve
lex125@pacbell.net
www.lexington125.com

BevvyB · 1st July 2003

Be good to see pics of it in situ, as it's rather a beast!

e-cue · 1st July 2003

The GX9000 totally kicks ass. I'm planning on getting one to print stems to. How much did this purchuse run you all together?

jazzius · 1st July 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by e-cue
The GX9000 totally kicks ass. I'm planning on getting one to print stems to. How much did this purchuse run you all together?

you serious?.......cool!........why?

hollywood_steve · 2nd July 2003

How much did this purchuse run you all together?
********************************************

I paid close to $6k after you add up my personal choices for the two hard drives, the Kingston carriers and other little accessories. But the base unit is $3200 or so, and anything above that is strictly an end-user decision. This is going to be my primary (only multitrack) recorder, so I went for the complete converter package (PCM- DSD-Analog, in any combination). But for a limited use like printing stems, you could easily get out for much closer to $4k, depends on your needs, check out the website. Hell, you could go really nuts and get a unit with no converters at all and then purchase the very pricey Genex outboard converters; then it would really be expensive, but you'd also have better audio quality than 99.999% of anybody around. I really think that they have done a good job of making the recorder user-definable based on the options list. Go see for yourself.

Steve
lex125@pacbell.net

e-cue · 2nd July 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzius
you serious?.......cool!........why?

I beta checked (didn't really test) a 5.1 mix I did with it as per Bobby Owsinski's recommendation. I had the unit locked to timecode and when I monitored the returns from the unit, I swore we were on "input" and not repro/playback. It was one of those, 'goto the studio next door and drag the engineer in the room to show let' situations. The most transparent digital I've witnessed. I'm keeping my eye on gennex. Should they ever hook up with an established (beyond sony) DAW, it's all over...

hollywood_steve · 2nd July 2003

. I'm keeping my eye on gennex. Should they ever hook up with an established (beyond sony) DAW, it's all over...
************************************************
How about SADIE and Merging / Pyramix? Genex has some sort of cooperation agreements with both, I think. The Pyramix one is mentioned on the Genex website while the SADIE agreement goes back to the MO based 8500 released years ago. I think that the only thing holding Genex back right now is that the demand for their new machines far outreaches their ability to deliver. Once they catch up. I expect big things.....

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

BattleAngel · 2nd July 2003

hollywood steve,

what is processing like on those babies? I definitely don't do a ton of processing or editing, but I do need to do some.

BattleAngel · 2nd July 2003

Are you planning on tracking to this, or like others have said, dumping to it?

e-cue · 2nd July 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by hollywood_steve
. I'm keeping my eye on gennex. Should they ever hook up with an established (beyond sony) DAW, it's all over...
************************************************
How about SADIE and Merging / Pyramix? Genex has some sort of cooperation agreements with both, I think. The Pyramix one is mentioned on the Genex website while the SADIE agreement goes back to the MO based 8500 released years ago. I think that the only thing holding Genex back right now is that the demand for their new machines far outreaches their ability to deliver. Once they catch up. I expect big things.....

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

I could see it happening... I was thinking more along the lines of Pro tools, Logic, and the other 'big guns'. Currently, I think of Gennex like the "beta videotape format". I hope they change that soon.

hollywood_steve · 2nd July 2003

hollywood steve,

what is processing like on those babies? I definitely don't do a ton of processing or editing, but I do need to do some.
*********************************************
It comes with an internal 8x2 mixer standard with all of the usual mixer features. For more extensive processing, there is an optional editing package. But for SERIOUS processing, hook up with a SADIE owner; that combination will provide the best tracking and processing available, at just about any price.

07-02-2003 03:49 PM

Are you planning on tracking to this, or like others have said, dumping to it?

No, it will be my primary recording device, replacing my trusty SV3800 as my location recorder. (and location work is all I do these days.....) How many other location recorders can handle both 24b/192kHz and DSD at the flick of a switch? And the unusual flexibility with the two internal drives allows me to do live backups on the fly or use the 2nd drive as an "overflow" drive or just about anything you could think of with 2 drives. Hi-end location recording is gonna be one of Genex's biggest markets; everything from classical to big budget rock (BRUCE has two of the earliest GX9048 machines on his current tour).

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

*****************************************

I could see it happening... I was thinking more along the lines of Pro tools, Logic, and the other 'big guns'. Currently, I think of Gennex like the "beta videotape format". I hope they change that soon.

I don't know....... I rate SADIE and Pyramix as the "real" pro tools, while the more popular daws are just the current replacement for those skinny fostex recorders from the 80's (or ADATS from the 90's). But that's just me......

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

jazzius · 2nd July 2003

e-cue...........were you recording DSD or 192k or what?

So you'd use it to capture your stems for future mix tweaks, or are you planning on heading down to Oasis with this thing under your arm?!

Rick Sutton · 3rd July 2003

hey steve,
just got through evaluating yesterdays' sessions with the genex 9000 and looks like it all went well. I'm using the outboard convertor that Genex has lent me, so I really haven't heard the machine that I will end up with, but it sure sounds good as it is now. Had to make a logistics decision on this project and recorded it at 44.1 PCM so it can dump easily into pro tools for editing. got your email about the software updates and appreciate the heads up. After spending the weekend getting to know the machine, I decided to record it as one long file so I wouldn't have to deal with keeping track of the different project numbers. Also found that my machine is happier just chugging away for a few hours recording rather than stopping and starting. I also ran a Fostex HD824 simultaneously as a backup, but didn't have to use it. One thing to remember on a hard disc recorder is a second drive in the Genex can be used as a safety to the first drive but won't do any good if the machine freezes or hickups ...both drives will be affected. During my pre-session tests I was able to freeze and confuse the machine several times, so I was extra concerned about this. It is possible that, without a manual, i was doing something inappropriate with the controls ...emailed kevin about it and he thinks that some test software was left on the machine and they'll get back to me about taking it out....could be, as I really pushed them to get me a machine for my sessions. The problems occured when listening to tests that were just completed, then going into record without taking the extra step to run the machine back to zero. it is supposed to work this way, but mine doesn't like it. As you know, it makes a new project every time record is hit, and the counter doesn't automatically zero, just goes from wherever it was when you hit the record button. Yours worked fine this way when I was given a run through at Genex, but mine really doesn't care for this operation. I'm confident that it will get worked out, maybe that software upgrade will take care of this "project" nonsense. Anyway, the machine performed, I got the first session under my belt and transferred to pro tools and now i can concentrate on the other aspects of this series of remotes so we can get a great recording for the players. Best regards, rick

e-cue · 3rd July 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzius
e-cue...........were you recording DSD or 192k or what?

DSD...

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzius
So you'd use it to capture your stems for future mix tweaks, or are you planning on heading down to Oasis with this thing under your arm?!

Well, I've taken my tdm rig there several times. Why the hell not? The evil part of the plan is printing the final, mastered version via DSD on to stereo tracks BACK into the unit.

hollywood_steve · 4th July 2003

Got to spend most of the day and early evening working with the GX9000 and the very preliminary version of the manual we owners all received last night. (I am humbled by anyone who can operate something this complex without a manual)

I won't make any huge pronouncements based on just recording my voice, a female voice and some acoustic guitar around the house, but......

In a totally non-scientific comparison of those three sources, I compared the DSD format vs 24/48, 24/96 and 24/192 PCM.

FWIW, I found the difference between DSD and PCM (any resolution) to be much greater than the difference between any two PCM variants. In other words, all three PCM formats sounded extremely similar although I could hear slight differences between them, while listening through Beyer DT770pro headphones. On the other hand, based on just these several hours of fooling around. I believe that I could pick out a DSD versus PCM recording (assuming all other factors are identical) consistently in any kind of a decent listening environment.

Discussing which format is preferable would quickly turn into a very personal, very subjective arguement, so I won't go there, except to say that I have a preference. (and it has nothing to do with which format has more impressive specifications, or produces fancier response graphs or anything else quantifiable; its more of a personal preference base on which one makes me smile more)

steve
lex125@pacbell.net

Rick Sutton · 4th July 2003

c'mon steve. which one makes you smile more? i can only do PCM on mine so far. And where did 'ya get the manual? cheers, rick

hollywood_steve · 5th July 2003

Of course, I preferred the DSD playback, but then I'm not impartial when it comes to judging PCM recordings. I always preferred analog even when it was obvious that digital recording presented a more "accurate" representation. So I am obviously going to prefer a digital format that sounds more like analog, warts and all. I don't want this to turn into hopeless arguement, so I'll state it both ways:

1. DSD presents a less biting, less harsh top end than PCM.
or
2. DSD provides a "softer," less accurate high end than PCM.

Whichever of those two statements you believe, the result is still the same. Its kinda funny that a guy my age (40+) would prefer a system with less high end, I would have thought that I would be looking to compensate for loss somehow......

(Note to Rick: Genex is making the first draft of the manual available only to owners via email - if you havent received yours yet, just email Genex. but it is very "preliminary" and still needs lots of work.)

1st July 2003	#1
hollywood_steve Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: uh..... Hollywood Posts: 1,242 Thread Starter	new toy, arrived and functioning! I received my new Genex GX9000 over the weekend after some delays in getting my choice of hard drives installed. (recommendation to any potenetial purchasers, let Genex purchase and install the drives....) I haven't had the chance yet to do much more than turn it on and record some sine waves from it's internal signal generator, but this looks like one very powerful and versatile machine. The signal routing is greatly enhanced by the internal 8x2 mixer and the unit's capability of copying to/from the two internal drives. (the second drive can be used as an "overflow" drive or you can record to both drives simultaneously resulting in a completed "safety copy" as soon as you are done recording.) I'll try to post some more news after I've actually had a chance to use the recorder, but first impressions are very favorable. For something as complex and powerful as this machine, I found the front panel and menu tree to be surprisingly straightforward, even for a complete newbie to digital multitracking. Lets hope enough folks agree so that other companies decide there is money to be made selling DSD compatible equipment. steve lex125@pacbell.net www.lexington125.com

1st July 2003	#2
BevvyB Mindreader Joined: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,604	Be good to see pics of it in situ, as it's rather a beast! __________________ Julian Moore \| Georgia Wonder \| 'Made In Nevada' Project - we're recording our next album in a music store

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1st July 2003	#3
e-cue Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 4,069	The GX9000 totally kicks ass. I'm planning on getting one to print stems to. How much did this purchuse run you all together?

2nd July 2003	#5
hollywood_steve Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: uh..... Hollywood Posts: 1,242 Thread Starter	How much did this purchuse run you all together? ******************************************** I paid close to $6k after you add up my personal choices for the two hard drives, the Kingston carriers and other little accessories. But the base unit is $3200 or so, and anything above that is strictly an end-user decision. This is going to be my primary (only multitrack) recorder, so I went for the complete converter package (PCM- DSD-Analog, in any combination). But for a limited use like printing stems, you could easily get out for much closer to $4k, depends on your needs, check out the website. Hell, you could go really nuts and get a unit with no converters at all and then purchase the very pricey Genex outboard converters; then it would really be expensive, but you'd also have better audio quality than 99.999% of anybody around. I really think that they have done a good job of making the recorder user-definable based on the options list. Go see for yourself. Steve lex125@pacbell.net

2nd July 2003	#8
BattleAngel Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 954	hollywood steve, what is processing like on those babies? I definitely don't do a ton of processing or editing, but I do need to do some.

2nd July 2003	#12
jazzius Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Amsterdam.....The Netherlands Posts: 593	e-cue...........were you recording DSD or 192k or what? So you'd use it to capture your stems for future mix tweaks, or are you planning on heading down to Oasis with this thing under your arm?!

3rd July 2003	#13
Rick Sutton Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2003 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,058	hey steve, just got through evaluating yesterdays' sessions with the genex 9000 and looks like it all went well. I'm using the outboard convertor that Genex has lent me, so I really haven't heard the machine that I will end up with, but it sure sounds good as it is now. Had to make a logistics decision on this project and recorded it at 44.1 PCM so it can dump easily into pro tools for editing. got your email about the software updates and appreciate the heads up. After spending the weekend getting to know the machine, I decided to record it as one long file so I wouldn't have to deal with keeping track of the different project numbers. Also found that my machine is happier just chugging away for a few hours recording rather than stopping and starting. I also ran a Fostex HD824 simultaneously as a backup, but didn't have to use it. One thing to remember on a hard disc recorder is a second drive in the Genex can be used as a safety to the first drive but won't do any good if the machine freezes or hickups ...both drives will be affected. During my pre-session tests I was able to freeze and confuse the machine several times, so I was extra concerned about this. It is possible that, without a manual, i was doing something inappropriate with the controls ...emailed kevin about it and he thinks that some test software was left on the machine and they'll get back to me about taking it out....could be, as I really pushed them to get me a machine for my sessions. The problems occured when listening to tests that were just completed, then going into record without taking the extra step to run the machine back to zero. it is supposed to work this way, but mine doesn't like it. As you know, it makes a new project every time record is hit, and the counter doesn't automatically zero, just goes from wherever it was when you hit the record button. Yours worked fine this way when I was given a run through at Genex, but mine really doesn't care for this operation. I'm confident that it will get worked out, maybe that software upgrade will take care of this "project" nonsense. Anyway, the machine performed, I got the first session under my belt and transferred to pro tools and now i can concentrate on the other aspects of this series of remotes so we can get a great recording for the players. Best regards, rick

4th July 2003	#15
hollywood_steve Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: uh..... Hollywood Posts: 1,242 Thread Starter	Got to spend most of the day and early evening working with the GX9000 and the very preliminary version of the manual we owners all received last night. (I am humbled by anyone who can operate something this complex without a manual) I won't make any huge pronouncements based on just recording my voice, a female voice and some acoustic guitar around the house, but...... In a totally non-scientific comparison of those three sources, I compared the DSD format vs 24/48, 24/96 and 24/192 PCM. FWIW, I found the difference between DSD and PCM (any resolution) to be much greater than the difference between any two PCM variants. In other words, all three PCM formats sounded extremely similar although I could hear slight differences between them, while listening through Beyer DT770pro headphones. On the other hand, based on just these several hours of fooling around. I believe that I could pick out a DSD versus PCM recording (assuming all other factors are identical) consistently in any kind of a decent listening environment. Discussing which format is preferable would quickly turn into a very personal, very subjective arguement, so I won't go there, except to say that I have a preference. (and it has nothing to do with which format has more impressive specifications, or produces fancier response graphs or anything else quantifiable; its more of a personal preference base on which one makes me smile more) steve lex125@pacbell.net

5th July 2003	#17
hollywood_steve Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: uh..... Hollywood Posts: 1,242 Thread Starter	Of course, I preferred the DSD playback, but then I'm not impartial when it comes to judging PCM recordings. I always preferred analog even when it was obvious that digital recording presented a more "accurate" representation. So I am obviously going to prefer a digital format that sounds more like analog, warts and all. I don't want this to turn into hopeless arguement, so I'll state it both ways: 1. DSD presents a less biting, less harsh top end than PCM. or 2. DSD provides a "softer," less accurate high end than PCM. Whichever of those two statements you believe, the result is still the same. Its kinda funny that a guy my age (40+) would prefer a system with less high end, I would have thought that I would be looking to compensate for loss somehow...... (Note to Rick: Genex is making the first draft of the manual available only to owners via email - if you havent received yours yet, just email Genex. but it is very "preliminary" and still needs lots of work.)