Headphones for location recording, classical music

[0VU]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Plus thumb, man, it's wonderful to think you could seclude yourself in the secret chamber under the altar, but who wants that! I need to see and be seen!

Also-- the "hands-on" nature of contending with the oft-times improvisatory nature of performances nearly dictates that you be watching the action unfold, keeping a careful eye on the performers and your own gear, and not in that order.

The only point of having headphones on anyway is to tell that a clean, healthy signal is being captured-- you don't have to decide anything on the spot.

Curious concept.

I prefer to seclude myself from the performance as much as possible, even if it meant the secret chamber under the altar (getting less secret by the minute ). Usually, however, it means a dusty store room, some corridor/stairwell or other, under a stage, in a crypt, in a van outside (either a 'proper' mobile or just a hire van with a de-rig control room set up inside), a nearby toilet, or on some jobs an adjacent office building or standing in a tent in a graveyard. Or many other possibilities.

The last thing I or the majority of my clients want is for me and/or a pile of gear to be seen by the audience and performers. Some guy sitting in clear view with a pair of cans on and surrounded by flashing lights, glowing screens and whirring hard drives is fairly distracting for an audience and particularly in smaller, more intimate settings of chamber concerts or recitals can be off putting for more sensitive performers.

If I want to see then I have video camera(a) and monitors I can set up. It only adds a few minutes to the rig/de-rig and on most concerts isn't necessary anyway. Just do what Plush says - start recording well before and
wait til it's over before hitting stop. Where the video link does come in is where there are stage movements to be accommodated (like in opera), where presenters are coming and going on different mics, or where someone other than you/your crew is handling a stage move and you want to keep tabs on their work to avoid the "oops, I knew there was something I forgot" moments of the soloist singing whilst your mic is still folded down on the floor!

In the last 8 years I can think of only six jobs where I've not been able to avoid setting up in the same room as the performance and in those I've been: 80 yards away out of sight behind some statues, at the back of the church/cathedral mostly hidden behind pillars, in a curtained off area not acoustically isolated but not visible. Fortunately, none of those shows needed to be mixed on the spot or I would've gone to the expense of hiring a mobile to work outside.

Besides all of which, if you're sitting in viw of the audience/performers, they can see you drinking coffee and reading the paper during the show, hear the producer tutting and grumbling about timings on live broadcasts, and the sound of the comms feeds (or the strobing call light) and TV director twittering on about his pictures whenever there's video. And anywhere inside the hall, then the smell of the pizza/fish & chips/curry/chinese tends to upset the house management


As for not deciding anything on the spot, if only that little luxury were always an option. It's fine if you're just pottering along doing a concert or two per week and have little/no time pressure or clients with other ideas to accommodate. Where it falls down is if you're doing a live broadcast where a a finished stereo or maybe surround live mix is definitely preferred over a choice of any two (or six) channels taken from the multitrack feeds. Or where the client wants to take the mixed recording away with them after the show, or needs a good stereo guide track for video (even if the final mix will be done later). Or where your workload simply doesn't allow time for revisiting every show to check the balance/carry out a full mix later. It's only in the last few years that work has dropped off enough for me regularly to treat the multitrack as anything other than an emergency backup for covering problems in the stereo mix. Until then, as much as possible has been mixed straight to it's delivery format then passed over to a colleague for editing/mastering. On the bright side, it's quite liberating knowing that I can sort out any lack of concentration or over-zealous experimentation afterwards but really boring when I have to go back and do again what I mostly did the day/week/month before. So sometimes the only point of having headphones on is because it's the only way to get the job done and you need to hear as clearly as possible because there's no margin for error or time to play about afterwards. Of course, speakers would probably be preferable but sometimes they're not an option.


Oh, and back on topic, on location, I use either AKG K701s (or K702s since I got some to replace one pair of 701s I broke by dropping them onto a stone floor (twice in one afternoon!) and knocking one of the drivers out of alignment), Sennheiser HD650s, Stax SR007-II, Sony MDR7509s or Etymoptic ER4Ps with Bilson military spec ear defenders on top in really extreme situations. Depending upon how noisy the location is (the Stax are useless in anything other than a virtually silent background as they stop no outside noise at all) and which cans I take out of the box first. (I'm always looking for a good alternative to the Sonys, though, as I find them a little uncomfortable over long periods so this thread is interesting.) To drive them, I usually use a Grace m904 or m902 (apart from the Stax).

[joelpatterson]

Whew!

Well, to each their own. Call me conceited and grandstanding, but I always feel like my presence confers a great sense of occasion to the proceedings-- and the more audience members and performers who see me, dressed smartly and working diligently, the better-- not for me the anonymity and invisibility some of you seem to crave.

[Mark A. Jay]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Whew!

Well, to each their own. Call me conceited and grandstanding, but I always feel like my presence confers a great sense of occasion to the proceedings-- and the more audience members and performers who see me, dressed smartly and working diligently, the better-- not for me the anonymity and invisibility some of you seem to crave.

I never really thought much about it. Joel's point is well taken though...when I show for gigs, it's jacket and tie for me, whether it's a string quartet or a rock band. I guess I like to project as professional an image as possible (by dressing well), even if it seems out of place in some gigs.

On the other hand, in many instances I am set up out of sight lines, so no one really ever sees me, save for the band during sound check. I guess for me, showing up 'suitably' dresses is just part of my routine; I do this even when I have a walk-through of a venue, again, because I want them to feel that I take the event seriously...and right or wrong, people will and do assess / judge your professionalism by how you dress.

That may not necessarily be fair (what in life really is?), because frankly, I would give the same amount of effort / dedication whether I was well-dressed or wearing shorts, flip-flops, and a T-shirt, but I may not be perceived as such if I am poorly dressed. Again, it's not fair for them to judge me or my capabilities by how I am dressed at the gig, but that's just the way it is.

[RMJAZZ]

I prefer to be in a separate room for a couple reasons;

1. I like having the isolation from the PA.....I want to be able to make sure 100% that my ears are hearing whats going "to tape". If you are in the same room, you are leaving some percentage of the quality to chance. I also like to bring my SLS monitors out of the studio b/c they are sooooo accurate it really tells me the truth, even when I am the one who sucks, they let me know so I can change something I have done.

2. I feel that the recording aspect of a live recording should be invisible from the audience so as to not become part of the performance. I look at my job as documenting what's happening at a concert, and a concert in it's raw form, does not include me with all my pre amps and extra light my gear creates (the 20" monitor is bright!), and any quick moves I may need to do to turn something down, or in a worse case scenario jump behind a rack and re-patch something.

Just my 2 cents
Rob

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

The only point of having headphones on anyway is to tell that a clean, healthy signal is being captured-- you don't have to decide anything on the spot.

I decide a lot of things on the spot. That's what sound checks and monitoring are for.

[rumleymusic]

2. I feel that the recording aspect of a live recording should be invisible from the audience so as to not become part of the performance.

That is an important request that most clients have. I either set up back stage, or in a control booth in the back of a hall. Rarely in the audience, and never in a place where I can be a distraction.

Still, I always show up in a suite. Classical concerts especially require a certain degree of formality.

As for deciding things on the spot. It is risky, especially if the client is expecting something polished that they can present to an audience or donors. I take back that I never mix to stereo on the spot, I do, but it is only for the backup, for videographers, and for immediate review after the concert. (A lot of people want something they can take home right away) For the final product, I need something I can alter in the studio. Headphones simply cannot give you an accurate live mix in most situations.

[David Spearritt]

When I show up, it's always all black clothing and black shoes. And I try the utmost to stay out of sight.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

When I show up, it's always all black clothing and black shoes. And I try the utmost to stay out of sight.

Good ideas. I will remember them. My gear is ultra simple: small recorder and up to four pairs of mics. But I definitely will be hidden the next time around. I have the cables so why not use them?


Thanks

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

I decide a lot of things on the spot. That's what sound checks and monitoring are for.

You know what I mean! Or-- maybe not...(?)

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

When I show up, it's always all black clothing and black shoes. And I try the utmost to stay out of sight.

And one simple little question, when you greet the conductor and walk up to shake his hand... is it anything like a meeting of equals? In anyone's eyes?

No further questions, Your Honor.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

I decide a lot of things on the spot. That's what sound checks and monitoring are for.

I have to know my decisions that I make at the site will work when I mix. To do this effectively, I need to a distance away with a decent pair of closed cans. I also try to get a decent view or the performance area, via window or opening a door slightly.

[philper]

Remote Audio phones iso very well, but you have to like Sony
7506s, which are the drivers they use. A sep. room is great
when I can get it (not often).

Phil p

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

And one simple little question, when you greet the conductor and walk up to shake his hand... is it anything like a meeting of equals? In anyone's eyes? No further questions, Your Honor.

My reputation precedes me, not my suit jacket. It's also nice blacks not faded T shirt with Levis. In fact it's often very similar to what the conductor is wearing.

[Plush]

It is quite important to me that my jacket (coat) and outfit is better looking and fancier than the conductor's clothing. This will often provide a bit of a furtive frisson as we meet and interact. I was taught this by Richard Hauck in Germany.

Believe you me, other people notice it too.

This is why I have a Chinaman make some work clothes for me. The only thing I don't copy are some of Herbie's Nehru jackets. I also have been totally unable to copy Herbie's hair. Some of my jackets are purple.

[dtf]

Hey Plush,

Wouldn't have thought that you know Richard Hauck! It's a small world, I guess... Though I can't remember him being noticeably well dressed during sessions!

Coming back to the subject, if you are serious about location recording, your monitoring situation will be your no.1 priority. Whether it means knowing your headphones intimately, or spending time setting up a decent control room - you are making a product destined for playback, so you have to judge it from a playback situation. When sitting in the same room as the musicians, this is impossible. Of course, we are talking acoustic recording here, where your microphone setup already determines balance and sound.

Best,
Dirk

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by Plush

This is why I have a Chinaman make some work clothes for me. The only thing I don't copy are some of Herbie's Nehru jackets. I also have been totally unable to copy Herbie's hair. Some of my jackets are purple.

Up-and-coming engineers and their Chi-Comm jackets -- thinking they can get the same quality as precision engineered German and Danish jackets. Ha! Only the best for me. My suits come from purebred silkworms descended from those brought to Europe by Ghengis Khan himself. Really smooth top-end and amazing warmth. None of the gritty Chi-Crap.

[mljung]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

Up-and-coming engineers and their Chi-Comm jackets -- thinking they can get the same quality as precision engineered German and Danish jackets. Ha! Only the best for me. My suits come from purebred silkworms descended from those brought to Europe by Ghengis Khan himself. Really smooth top-end and amazing warmth. None of the gritty Chi-Crap.

thumbsup

Interesting - for location recording I always attend naked, I simply get better results this way, more transparent and lifelike. Just as Joel Patterson I prefer sitting in the same room as the performers, only wearing cans [gold cans].

::
Mads

[rumleymusic]

No one is denying that the good German and Danish jackets are on the whole better than the Chinese. But you have to admit that the newer Chinese jackets do present good quality for the money for the modern engineer.

To garner real respect from a conductor, I have adopted the Godfather approach. First walk straight up to him, cusp his face with both hands, give him a little slap and a full kiss on the mouth. Straighten his jacket and say "Look at this guy, I love this guy!" Shake him hard on the shoulders and say loudly "YOU'RE A REAL GEM!". Follow that with another, harder slap on the face, then go about your business.

[Plush]

In order to also foster good relations with conductors, I sometimes introduce myself as a homosexual-ist. When they act puzzled as to what I am getting at, I tell them that a homosexualist is someone who is straight but that gets along splendidly with homosexuals.

thankyasomuch!

[rumleymusic]

In order to also foster good relations with conductors, I sometimes introduce myself as a homosexual-ist. When they act puzzled as to what I am getting at, I tell them that a homosexualist is someone who is straight but that gets along splendidly with homosexuals.

Follow that with the kiss-on-the mouth approach. But instead of cusping his face, cusp him by his other cheeks. thumbsup

[joelpatterson]

I put on a black glove and stand there, fist in the air.

[Mark A. Jay]

Originally Posted by mljung

thumbsup

Interesting - for location recording I always attend naked, I simply get better results this way, more transparent and lifelike. Just as Joel Patterson I prefer sitting in the same room as the performers, only wearing cans [gold cans].

::
Mads

I used to work naked - exclusively - but then I put on some pounds and decided that perhaps, that attire (or lack thereof) was no longer in the patrons' best interests. Hence, while I said that I always wear a jacket and tie to the gigs, I neglected to mention that the jacket is a gold lame jacket. After all, it is show business, and if it was good enough for Elvis...

[boojum]

I had had such respect and admiration for this group. LOL

[Plush]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I put on a black glove and stand there, fist in the air.

STRONG Move!

Also consider that if you don't like the repertoire on offer, MARCH in protest around the hall or auditorium.

[joelpatterson]

Too much Ives in a program makes me feel that way, sometimes.