Questions about Yamaha M7CL

[ebulb]

I am currently booked to do a live recording of a local band supporting a touring act at a 1000 seat venue.. The venues normal analog desk is out of action and they currently have a 48ch M7CL console in there..

Given that i didnt want to be ruffling any feathers with the headline act i had planned on running direct line out of each channel on the desk to minimise my impact.. This was before i found out the desk is now a M7CL..

i havent had any experience with an M7CL at all and i have just looked at the specs and noticed it doesnt really offer any generic analog direct outs.. At least not that i could easily see.. Is this right ? Can anyone who has experience with one of them tell me if there is anyway i could run an Alesis HD24 off it to record each line after pre amps ? The documentation i have found is suggesting i run a MADI interface with a DAW but i cant do that in this instance..

I have splitters and pre amps also but the nature of how im being booked for this gig doesnt really allow me any soundcheck time and i dont want to start imposing my splitters on the headline act as the ones i will have a cheaper passive types..

[huub]

You can do it if the desk has plenty of analog output cards fitted..

[ebulb]

Ok.. I will see if it has extra outputs... Are extra outputs assignable or are they there as dedicated direct outs ? Im wondering if maybe they can be used for inserts or subgroups etc.. i wouldnt be able to use them if they are doubling up as an insert point also...

Also if they are assignable, is there an easy way to allocate each analog input to the output ? or does it require manual setup of each channel to route the signal ?

Also, im looking at the SB168 stage boxes.. It says they have 8 analog outs that correspond to the analog input channels.. But what about channels 9-16 on the sb168 ? Does that mean they only get routed to the M7CL ?

[huub]

They're assignable..
Pay attention: if you want to use inserts, you can only use the in/outputs on the optional i/o cards.. You cannot use the in and outputs fitted as standard as inserts!!
I used 1 once that had no cards fitted, and had to use my analog compressors by ways of: to output bus>compressor> return on stereo channel..
The internal effects are pretty fine sounding..

[Murton]

You'll need to see what cards they have installed. Depending on that, hire the nessecary number of ADAT cards, put them in, run ADAT cables to the HD24. And then on the scene for your act, assign the direct out of each channel to those of the option card outputs.

I do this all the time with my LS9, it's my means of live recording, virtual soundcheck, archive etc.

[777Artin]

Originally Posted by Murton

You'll need to see what cards they have installed. Depending on that, hire the nessecary number of ADAT cards, put them in, run ADAT cables to the HD24. And then on the scene for your act, assign the direct out of each channel to those of the option card outputs.

I do this all the time with my LS9, it's my means of live recording, virtual soundcheck, archive etc.

+1 on that.

Bring a USB key so to save your mixes

The M7CL is very user-friendly. You'll love it.

777artin

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Murton

You'll need to see what cards they have installed. Depending on that, hire the nessecary number of ADAT cards, put them in, run ADAT cables to the HD24. And then on the scene for your act, assign the direct out of each channel to those of the option card outputs.

I will second this suggestion as it is really the only way to go with this console. There are 3 card slots on the M7CL-48. Each can deal with 16 channels of I/O

When you set up your direct outs, I would also suggest that you set the direct output to be pre-fade and pre-eq. That way the house mix won't get in the way of your tracks for the recording mix.

--Ben

[bishopthomas]

You want the MY16AT cards (or three MY8AT's, if all three slots are available).

[ebulb]

thanks for the assistance.. unfortunately i wont have the freedom to manipulate the desk at all with ADAT cards.. It sounds like the perfect solution if i could do it as my HD24 has ADAT in and i could just run direct l;ines.. But im recording the support band and i have to ensure i am pretty much invisible to everyone.. Also the budget i have isnt going to allow me to hire cards, I have to use what i have.. The best oppourtunity for me is to take direct out of each channel but since the desk doesnt have that as a default option im stuck.

I have decided to try and use the direct out from the foldback desk which is an old school soundcraft.. I'll see how i go.. Thanks again.

[Roland]

In my experience, those running M7CL's don't usually buy a lot of optional cards, and depending on the number of outputs being run from the desk for monitors, FOH, outboad effects, etc, I suspect you will most likely have 16 out's less the above mentioned!

My recommendation to you would be to borrow, hire, steal a split, and run into 3, 8 channel mic amps, direct into your ADAT machine. If you are the support act, the headliners are unlikely to cut you much slack with time to configure things for your recording. With a split you should be able to work quickly and as long as your levels are safe you will have a lot of options later. I would also recommend that you take at least a couple of audience feeds, will add a lot of life to your live recording.

Good luck!


Roland

[philper]

Taking the directs off that moni board sounds like a good quick fix, esp if you are feeling like they aren't going to help you out much @ FOH.

phil p

[Murton]

I do think splitting before the monitor desk would be okay if you are already able to take direct outs.

Much more flexible and monitor desks are usually unattended in most venues. If you can do monitors for the act and set the gains accordingly and recording from the desk it would be alright.

I find audience mics in the nosebleed section to get the best results. Two condensers right where the stage ends, esp if they have a crowd barrier. A sock might help if you are scared about beer spillage. Otherwise use a pair of shitty mics that you aren't afriad of wrecking. Behringer C2's for example get acceptable results for what you need.

[ebulb]

Thanks everyone for your help.. Im going to try and pursue the direct outs from the monitor desk.. it will be operated by the in house guy and i have spoken to him and he seems helpful..

My only problem is finding out what type of signal im likely to get from the desk itself... Its a soundcraft SN12 and he has told me its got a direct out with an input on each channel also.. My guess is its an older type insert with in and out rather than TRS.. If i can take the direct out without needing to go back in also that would be ok, but im wondering if taking the output breaks the signal again until you patch the input back also.. If the later is true it means that the foldback would be relying on my recorder in the middle which i dont like the idea of..

I will post a new thread to see if anyone has had any experience with this model.. the gig is in 4 days time.. thanks again for the help..

[ebulb]

Well after everything i managed to use the foldback desk for my lines into the HD24.. but the curve ball i wasnt expecting was the M7CL had optical output boards installed.. if i had of known i could have brought optical leads and gotten that signal from FOH..

Does anyone know with those optical output cards installed, is it a simple matter of pluging in optical leads to your recorder ? Or is there any setup to be done within the desk itself to ensure the corresponding channel route to the optical outs ? similar to my early question but If its as easy as plug n go then that would be cool to know for next time...

[777Artin]

It's plug-and-play.

Just check all your clock is right.

You should see all ADAT outputs through the I/O patch.

- select channel
- check for direct out
- select output patch : ADAT cards
- trim pot (if i remember right)

that's it really.

777artin

[burnhard]

It's plug&play...but m7 preamps and converters sound like shit anyway...so your better off with the monitor desk ...

[jetam]

I don't think that setting direc outs will take you less time then setting spliter and preamps.

[ebulb]

Originally Posted by burnhard

It's plug&play...but m7 preamps and converters sound like shit anyway...so your better off with the monitor desk ...

the monitor desk was completely effortless so i couldnt ask for much more i suppose..

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by jetam

I don't think that setting direc outs will take you less time then setting spliter and preamps.

Originally Posted by ebulb

the monitor desk was completely effortless so i couldnt ask for much more i suppose..

One problem going with the direct outs of a console:
If and when the engineer needs to adjust the preamp gain your level to the recorder will also be adjusted.

As long as everything has been adjusted ahead of time and the engineer knows (or even cares) about your recording, you should be fine...

You may have to remind him/her about it once or twice.
Holding back on grabbing that preamp gain control in the thick of things may be easier said than done.

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

One problem going with the direct outs of a console:
If and when the engineer needs to adjust the preamp gain your level to the recorder will also be adjusted.

And on Yamaha digital consoles you can hear the gain steps as you adjust the head amp.

[ebulb]

in the end the send i got from the foldback desk sounds pretty good on first listen.. the levels on the drums are slightly high but its not too bad and i dont mind that anyway.. The in house guy was doing foldback and was really helpful..

As tempting as the optical outs look on the yamaha into the HD24, if i go back i will either organise to take splits or i will just go the foldback route again as it was about as good as i could have hoped for given the scenario..

[Remoteness]

I trust the MON engineer was playing nice and did not adjust the preamp gains during the performance...

If so, that was very strong!

[ebulb]

there might be some slight level movement here and there but i didnt really see much in the quick playback i did, overall its pretty consistent which is cool.. They did a decent line check before the gig and also had their own channels seperate from the headliners on the desk so i think once they were set it was fairly straight..

But i was thankful for the help i got, i was originally concerned i would be dealing with a headline act that may stay there sound checking till 15 minutes before doors and i would have to scramble at the last minute to get my shit together for the support.. But thankfully it wasnt like that at all..

[Remoteness]

I'm glad to hear the levels weren't all over the place.
I don't like taking the direct outs if I'm not the engineer behind the board.

Hey, I'd take a decent line check any day of the week.
Sound checks are over rated; NOT! Just kidding.

So, in the end everything worked out - that very strong!

Originally Posted by ebulb

there might be some slight level movement here and there but i didnt really see much in the quick playback i did, overall its pretty consistent which is cool.. They did a decent line check before the gig and also had their own channels seperate from the headliners on the desk so i think once they were set it was fairly straight..

But i was thankful for the help i got, i was originally concerned i would be dealing with a headline act that may stay there sound checking till 15 minutes before doors and i would have to scramble at the last minute to get my shit together for the support.. But thankfully it wasnt like that at all..

[mikegsax]

Anybody know about the yamaha m7cl-48es and Ethernet capabilities .
Is it a good idea for an install for a church using Ethernet snakes or
Not . Is that technology reliable or not. The flexibilites of physical inputs are great But for a church installation I don't think it's necessary . I heard that there are latency issues with the Ethernet. Is that true ?
Regular snakes or es board with Ethernet snakes.

[huub]

yamaha ethernet technology has very very minimum latency..

[bishopthomas]

We have the ES version and there is no audible latency. Running a 300' CAT5 is much more fun than its 56 pair copper equivalent, so it's totally worth it for portable applications. However, for an install I would save your money and go copper, especially if you already have the snake. You can find used M7's for around $15,000, the ES is going to be at least another 10 grand.

[ebulb]

There's a chance i might be headed back to this same venue for another gig soonish.. last time i took the inserts from the foldback and everything worked ok so i will do that again if need be..

But i was wondering if anyone knows off the top of their head what the optical out boards from the M7CL desk will send ? Is it pre EQ/fader or post ? are the optical outs routed by from each input channel or are they customisable outputs that need to be setup within the desk itself ?

It's another gig where i wont really have much say in what goes on so if i can just rock up and patch the optical outs of the M7CL into the HD24 and i get signal post gain and pre EQ/fader that would work well.. if i have to start configuring the desk or i get signal post EQ and fader it would be better for me to take the monitor send again..

i can look at the manual or join a yamaha forum if need be i just thought someone here might know how the desk works by default..