Uber clean limiter for live remote mixdowns

[MichaelPatrick]

I could search or check out some tags, but I don't believe there's a recent thread on GS that asks remotesters who will best understand what I'm looking for and why.

Next season I need to do more live stereo mixdowns of classical/acoustic music and I want a very clean limiter only to prevent digital clipping. I don't ever want to hear it and I don't ever hope to need it. It will be a safety net.

Can you recommend something like this, not heavy and 1RU?

[rumleymusic]

Symetrix 528E.

It is a vocal processor but the unneeded functions can be bypased if you just want to use the limiter. Much better quality than DBX options, and still affordable.

[Teddy Ray]

CharterOak SCL-1 Compressor/Limiter at NAMM - MacMusic

people are saying it is the most transparent there is..

[DannyL]

If you want a reasonably priced analog device look at some of the Ashly line: Ashly Audio CLX-52 2-Channel Peak Compressor/Limiter

Also have a look at the BSS gear: BSS Audio DPR-402

TC Electronics make the C400XL, a digital device. I believe it is the same dual engine processor available in the M2000. Pretty clean. I have used it (in the M2000) The channel separation is pretty impressive. Analog or digital i/o.

Regards;
Danny

[MichaelPatrick]

Great suggestions. Thanks!

I had a DBX 162SL and it wasn't clean enough.

[Teddy Ray]

cant even hear it!!

[Suda Badri]

yeah those samples are insane... try prism limiters!

[Mazo Audio]

Michael,

I think you are talkin' pendulum here, the circuit actually stays out of the signal path until you hit your threshold. Wicked.

http://www.pendulumaudio.com/PL2.html

[rumleymusic]

try prism limiters

I was thinking a pair of overkiller tubes would be perfect for this.

cant even hear it!!

That is rather impressive.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Symetrix 528E.

Looks like a feature rich mid-level broadcast voice channel. I don't see a way to link units for stereo, and many of the features would be wasted in my application. I certainly don't want downward compression or gating! Might be awesome for voiceover work; I now use an Aphex 230.

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

CharterOak SCL-1 Compressor/Limiter at NAMM - MacMusic

people are saying it is the most transparent there is..

Wow, it does things that nothing else out there can. I wasn't thinking of a compressor at all, but this might be one I could use because the design purports to improve on the best broadcast modulation optimizer algorithms. The clips are very impressive. I also have to admit that 1/2 of my clients would like their material mildly compressed because they just want to be heard in a car. Yes, there is a distant cousin of the loudness war in classical music.

I want a demo!

Originally Posted by DannyL

If you want a reasonably priced analog device look at some of the Ashly line: Ashly Audio CLX-52 2-Channel Peak Compressor/Limiter

Also have a look at the BSS gear: BSS Audio DPR-402

TC Electronics make the C400XL, a digital device. I believe it is the same dual engine processor available in the M2000. Pretty clean. I have used it (in the M2000) The channel separation is pretty impressive. Analog or digital i/o.

Ashly gear sounds better than it's price -- a good thing given that the CLS-52 thing is only $330 USD. If I can't find enough cash before the season starts this might be on my short list.

The BSS device also looks good. A thoughtful British design with two stages, compression followed by limiter. Price is also good.

The TC also looks intriguing but I think analog processing will sound better unless I spend more money.

Originally Posted by Suda Badri

try prism limiters!

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

I was thinking a pair of overkiller tubes would be perfect for this.

Hadn't ever heard of them. The price and convenience make them almost too good to believe. How do they sound?

Originally Posted by Mazo Audio

I think you are talkin' pendulum here, the circuit actually stays out of the signal path until you hit your threshold. Wicked.

Pendulum PL-2 JFET/MOSFET Analog Peak Limiter

This is the kind of device I was thinking about. I have a Pendulum OCL-2 and love it. A perfect combination might be CharterOak SCL-1 > Pendulum PL-2.

[Suda Badri]

Ummm I was talking about the MPL or mds or whatever but for the price of overkillers why not just try them.... their actual limiters are not cheap, but kick arse majorly... this pendulum name keeps coming up and that switchable limiter looks cool...

WAIT, they dont seem to be doing these limiters anymore, cant see them on the website....

regarding the sound of overkillers, I dont know... but I hate soft limit in apogee boxes...

[WVUtubadude]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

CharterOak SCL-1 Compressor/Limiter at NAMM - MacMusic

people are saying it is the most transparent there is..

Wow. That looks like it would be nice in my broadcast chains.

[staudio]

I have a Pendulum PL2 and while I use it mostly for mastering and drum slamming (during mixing) it does seem like a perfect fit as a safety limiter for tracking. It is very very clean and works extremely well.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Suda Badri

Ummm I was talking about the MPL or mds

I didn't think you had the Maselec MLA-2 in mind but couldn't find the others. The little barrels look interesting but passive limiting just sounds nuts to me, mostly because I have no idea how they do it.

[Suda Badri]

They used to make 2 single rack space units, one just a straight limiter and another one with an added De-Esser called MDS-2 or something, must be discontinued... I have never heard the over killers, I have never owned prism converters either... Id love to hear your thoughts on the over killers though if you decide to try them out, I have been dreaming about an OCL-2 for a while now, however, im just too much of a sucker for good digital old school efx machines...

[Teddy Ray]

the EAR 660 is great too.

Mercenary Audio - EAR 660 Limiter

[Suda Badri]

Is that a mono unit?

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I could search or check out some tags, but I don't believe there's a recent thread on GS that asks remotesters who will best understand what I'm looking for and why.

Next season I need to do more live stereo mixdowns of classical/acoustic music and I want a very clean limiter only to prevent digital clipping. I don't ever want to hear it and I don't ever hope to need it. It will be a safety net.

Can you recommend something like this, not heavy and 1RU?

In the analog/hardware world...

Not alot of love for these around here:



(Aphex Dominator II 720)

...But they are solidly built, reliable, precise, and pretty much don't sound like anything 'till they start reducing gain. They're NOT a "character" box!

Balanced in/out, with plenty of headroom, but will "play well" with unbalanced/pro-sumer gear if need be (there's even a switch for that).

It's a stereo unit, but pretty much useless for dual mono. (Yeah, there's a 'link/unlink' button, but the controls are 'ganged' together, and usually screw up your plans when you try to use it that way.)

...Still, worth a look.

(Affordable used, too.)

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Suda Badri

Is that a mono unit?

yep!

[niquest]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

...classical/acoustic music ... a very clean limiter...

For live to stereo mixes I think the junger d0x series are fantastic tools:

Products

pretty decent convertors, too.

They are pretty common in broadcast sound over here. Wish I had a d03...

[Suda Badri]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

yep!

oh my god...

[mattiasvogeler]

Junger

and

Pendulum PL2

[12ax7]

Hmmm.

It just dawned on me that just 'cause you're doing a live mix might not mean you are forced to track your two-mix to only two tracks.

If you have the option, a better solution might be to print a pair of "safety tracks."

If you have the option, just split the analog before conversion, pad the second pair down by 6db, and print that on to two other tracks.

Much cleaner.

(An old trick used by on-set film mixers.)

If you end up with 'overs' on the main pair, the second pair is safe.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I could search or check out some tags, but I don't believe there's a recent thread on GS that asks remotesters who will best understand what I'm looking for and why.

Next season I need to do more live stereo mixdowns of classical/acoustic music and I want a very clean limiter only to prevent digital clipping. I don't ever want to hear it and I don't ever hope to need it. It will be a safety net.

Can you recommend something like this, not heavy and 1RU?

Michael,

The Charter Oak is an Awesome Box, [not 1RU] but its not so much a straight peak limiter, and - it certainly has a sound due to the iron and discrete circuit. Its job as a compressor is unfathomable in the fact it seems to be an intelligent and relative processor with the ability to "tune" the gain action/reaction back to 0VU based upon program material. Its rectifier circuit possesses a parabolic average charge curve. The result is a quick release that releases to a continually changing average level. Overall I find this compressor to be impervious to frequency loss at any reduction. It does not shave the audio down, ever.

The Pl2 is one of my favorite limiter boxes out there. It doesn't add weight. When used properly, as you would for your application, it is highly invisible, and I cannot hear this limiter working when set to limit out of range peaks. When using it to push the snot out of a source, its like Super Man doing a thousand miles an hour holding down a brake pedal made of kryptonite. It is a serious brick wall of stop-age. You can really get more density out of sources with it, and it will not add any dense distortion on its own like other boxes [L2 etc.]. So, with the two different modes of limiting, and the controls makes it well suited for either use, but I think when used as a forceful limiter, the switchable limiting circuit's characters come in more handy, as they each have their own thing.

The E.A.R is not a processor I would recommend here, [as it has insane character and compression prowess] unless you need way more heavy lifting [ballistic average and peak limiting/compression] and wanted wait 9 months to get one after you've mortgage your house and sold your soul to the finance company.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

Hmmm.

It just dawned on me that just 'cause you're doing a live mix might not mean you are forced to track your two-mix to only two tracks.

If you have the option, a better solution might be to print a pair of "safety tracks."

If you have the option, just split the analog before conversion, pad the second pair down by 6db, and print that on to two other tracks.

Much cleaner.

(An old trick used by on-set film mixers.)

If you end up with 'overs' on the main pair, the second pair is safe.

I hadn't thought of that. I could use my 744T for that and use the 788T for ISO tracks. What a great idea.

P.S. This is why I hang out on GS. Thanks!

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I hadn't thought of that. I could use my 744T for that and use the 788T for ISO tracks. What a great idea.

P.S. This is why I hang out on GS. Thanks!

Hey, that's why I'M here, too!

(Well, that and to crack jokes and make trouble.)

Makes me feel good to be on the GIVING end for a change! (There's a whole lotta genuine "gurus" on here, and I must admit I've been on the receiving end more often than not.)

Hope I saved you some money.

(God knows we all need that about now!)

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

The Charter Oak is an Awesome Box, [not 1RU] but its not so much a straight peak limiter, and - it certainly has a sound due to the iron and discrete circuit. Its job as a compressor is unfathomable in the fact it seems to be an intelligent and relative processor with the ability to "tune" the gain action/reaction back to 0VU based upon program material. Its rectifier circuit possesses a parabolic average charge curve. The result is a quick release that releases to a continually changing average level. Overall I find this compressor to be impervious to frequency loss at any reduction. It does not shave the audio down, ever.

I didn't know such a box existed until now, having looked at broadcast dynamics many times before in the hope of finding something "invisible" for those jobs that would otherwise require some serious level automation at mixdown. I don't monkey with dynamics alot, but I do have many clients who'd rather not have to complain about playback in their car, because that's their main "stereo".

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

The Pl2 is one of my favorite limiter boxes out there. It doesn't add weight. When used properly, as you would for your application, it is highly invisible, and I cannot hear this limiter working when set to limit out of range peaks. When using it to push the snot out of a source, its like Super Man doing a thousand miles an hour holding down a brake pedal made of kryptonite. It is a serious brick wall of stop-age. You can really get more density out of sources with it, and it will not add any dense distortion on its own like other boxes [L2 etc.]. So, with the two different modes of limiting, and the controls makes it well suited for either use, but I think when used as a forceful limiter, the switchable limiting circuit's characters come in more handy, as they each have their own thing.

Do you have an opinion of which mode, JFET or MOSFET, is best for classical? I imagine MOSFET since it's the 'soft' option.

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

The E.A.R is not a processor I would recommend here, [as it has insane character and compression prowess] unless you need way more heavy lifting [ballistic average and peak limiting/compression] and wanted wait 9 months to get one after you've mortgage your house and sold your soul to the finance company.

$11,000 for one channel?

I think Teddy is toying with us. A sense of humor is better than PTSD, right?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

In the analog/hardware world...

Not alot of love for these around here:



(Aphex Dominator II 720)

...But they are solidly built, reliable, precise, and pretty much don't sound like anything 'till they start reducing gain. They're NOT a "character" box!

Balanced in/out, with plenty of headroom, but will "play well" with unbalanced/pro-sumer gear if need be (there's even a switch for that).

It's a stereo unit, but pretty much useless for dual mono. (Yeah, there's a 'link/unlink' button, but the controls are 'ganged' together, and usually screw up your plans when you try to use it that way.)

...Still, worth a look.

(Affordable used, too.)

And the price is good too. I like the broadcast approach with 2 stage limiting (multiband > intelligent wideband). I also like .2dB detented pots and 104dB dynamic range.

Originally Posted by niquest

For live to stereo mixes I think the junger d0x series are fantastic tools:

Products

pretty decent convertors, too.

They are pretty common in broadcast sound over here. Wish I had a d03...

I didn't know about these guys. The D02 is history and the whole line looks pretty expensive because they're meant for quality bcast chains. May come back to it but it's not attractive for now against the CharterOak (compressor) and Pendulum (limiter).

[Teddy Ray]

yes, I was taking the piss with the EAR reccomend.

the Charter Oak, at least from the videos/samples sounds as invisible as I have ever heard.....

and of course the Junger, which are somewhat of a Gold Standard....PLush uses them, if that tells you anything. (great tastes , Mr. Plush)


Products

http://www.junger-audio.com/products...ics-processor/

[Matti]

-= Safe Sound Audio =-
Might be good for you

Matti