Del McCoury All Star Bluegrass Celebration DVD - 1 mic?

[Blast9]

I can't see very clearly on this clip as the vid quality is mangled

Is this really all 1 mic - the acoustic guitar sounds remarkably consistent when he backs off the mic - sounds great!

[NorseHorse]

Nice. AT4060 I bet.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Blast9

I can't see very clearly on this clip as the vid quality is mangled

Is this really all 1 mic - the acoustic guitar sounds remarkably consistent when he backs off the mic - sounds great!

http://www.bluegrasswales.org/SingleMic.htm


Many, MANY Bluegrass groups work that way. Depending on the natural balance, leaning in for solos, etc.

I prefer recording that way...

[Blast9]

Yes, so I understand!

But listen to that dreadnought and its position relative to the mic and the way it is balanced in the mix!

[t_chance]

I'm quite sure it is the one mic. It's all in the chops. He knows how hard he has to play relative to the mic distance.

[Blast9]

Amazing!

PS thanks Teddy Ray for the other vids thumbsup

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Amazing!

PS thanks Teddy Ray for the other vids thumbsup

no problem... the Stamps was my old group..

JD Sumner (the DEEP voiced guy) ... owned the group, and when he died, I was blessed to be able to take his place. Unforgettable experience as JD was amazing.

[Teddy Ray]

I have it on good authority(and I've heard the results!)

that the Josephson c700s is *AMAZING* for this purpose. Man, once this CD hits, ill post a link.. Am helping out with a bluegrass project for which this microphone is the *only* transducer.. never heard anything(on bluegrass, the one mic thing) so amazing in all my life..


Jesus!stike

[GZsound]

It's actually quite common for a good bluegrass group to sound that good with a single mic.

I'm running sound this weekend for a bluegrass group that does that exact same song with one mic and a Martin D28 guitar.

Shure KSM 32/44, AT 4047/4050, etc. all work well for single mic bluegrass groups.

[Blast9]

Cool!

How does monitoring get set up for these gigs?

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Cool!

How does monitoring get set up for these gigs?

The groups ive worked with have always just used the wedges, no IEMs or anything... (although to be truthful, most of them listen to the unamplified blend (or feel, rather..you can "feel" when everything is locked in place) ) so..the wedges are not very loud.


here is another shining example of the one mic technique.

[t_chance]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Cool!

How does monitoring get set up for these gigs?

Seldom if ever in the monitors, especially for the seasoned talent. They mix themselves when so tight on a mic. Just make sure to ring out your mic beforehand.

[GZsound]

Yeah, the entire point of using one mic is so that the band sounds like they do when they rehearse.

They get in the same circle so they can hear each other and that's what they are used to. They don't need monitors.

The bluegrass band I travel with and engineer for uses three LD condensers ala Rhonda Vincent, and they like a little monitor if possible.

We normally use two wedges as side fills pointing behind the outboard LD mics and don't turn them up very loud.

Occasionally I have bands insist on one mic and lot's of monitor and that can be a disaster. The Earl Brothers, for example, use one LD mic in front and wanted one on a stand in front of the bass, plus monitors. That bass mic gave me fits in the monitors.

[GZsound]

Update.. I just returned from running sound at a bluegrass concert series and one of the groups used a single mic and did "Oh My Brother"..

The band recorded the performance with a Zoom H2 from the mix position and I'll post it as soon as they send it to me. It was amazing.

[Blast9]

Awesome - I have an H2 which I recorded a gig of ours from mix position in a nice room on long Island... came out really nice - I'm sure it will sound great.

Thanks

[Boschen]

I ran sound for Del and his band many times at Telluride; we almost always used just a single mic (AT 4040 or 4060 it was, props to norse) especially on the free stage in town, where guests would pop up like mushrooms, with no time for extra mics and checks. Their main stage set up was pretty similar.

Del and his gang know how to work a mic, and that's all it takes; reinforcement in the wedges was usually quite low, and no IEMs. On the free stage, everything in the mains came off the AT, and the level in the mains was never really high, more of a reinforcement for the acoustic sound of the band coming off the stage, which was actually pretty cutting, vox especially. The mains were just there to fill out the sound for the crowd, which at the free stage would often swell to a thousand or more. Even then, the mix was full and uncluttered, with the sense that most of the audio was coming from the performers, not the speakers.
This is the way I like acoustic music to be.

[Blast9]

Amazing - thanks for that nugget.

blown away by the tone of the ac gtr on the DVD clip!

[jacktadoussac]

From looking at a related article on Bluegrass Wales the author mentions the Shure KSM 32 and 44 as being good for this application -- since they have been ruggedized and can better survive a few knocks.

Any thoughts on this. Perhaps this is a good application for my EV635b or my re20.

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by jacktadoussac

From looking at a related article on Bluegrass Wales the author mentions the Shure KSM 32 and 44 as being good for this application -- since they have been ruggedized and can better survive a few knocks.

Any thoughts on this. Perhaps this is a good application for my EV635b or my re20.

Dont know about the Shure.. but I have used various models of the AKG 414, and it works very, very well.

[GZsound]

It is my understanding that Rhonda Vincent was offered Neumann mics and rejected them in favor of the Shure KSM 32/44 mics she uses.

And Ricky Skaggs uses those Shure mics also. They seem popular in the bluegrass community.

[jacktadoussac]

Hi Mark thanks for introducing me to Rhonda Vincent's music.

It's obvious from these examples that a good dreadnaught guitar (or mandolin) is loud enough to be heard in a mike that positioned at the singer (s) level.

Makes you wonder whose big idea it was to multitrack?

Also consider this -- pristine bluegrass beauties need sponsors too. Shure is listed as one of Vincent's supporters.

http://www.rhondavincent.com/

[GZsound]

Originally Posted by jacktadoussac

Hi Mark thanks for introducing me to Rhonda Vincent's music.

It's obvious from these examples that a good dreadnaught guitar (or mandolin) is loud enough to be heard in a mike that positioned at the singer (s) level.

Makes you wonder whose big idea it was to multitrack?

Also consider this -- pristine bluegrass beauties need sponsors too. Shure is listed as one of Vincent's supporters.

Official Rhonda Vincent Website

That's exactly right. That was my point. Neumann approached her with an endorsement deal and she turned them down in favor of her trusty Shure mics. At least that's the story that was floating around backstage at the last concert of hers I attended. .

[jabney]

When did Del stop using the AT 4033? The first time a friend of mine did sound for the Del McCoury band, he mic'ed the group with one mic' per position (as per the rider) but used a medium-diaphragm condenser (the original CAD 100) for the lead position. As the evening progressed, more activity started centering around the one center mic' and - voila! - a trend was born. Responsible for the trend or not (I was there and it was a great evening - both sets), the next two times my friend did FOH sound for them, the band was spec'cing an AT 4033. Though by the second time, it had expanded to include a second mic' for Mike Bub's upright bass.

best,

john

[jacktadoussac]

Until I can afford that Josephine 700 stereo mic I've improvising with a pair of re20 mikes. I don't have a figure of eight mike so I'm not kitted up to do Mid-Side.

Basically I set up the pair of them in a V with the angle between the mikes about 60 degree -- much a Canada Geese formation.

It's close enough to sing into and it picks up the guitar perfectly. I don't use an internal guitar pickup -- what's the point of have a couple of high end acoustics if you end up plugging it in like a Takamine or something (a Taylor?).

** if I had a pair of AKG 414 or even two KSM 32 I would probably go for an angle of 60 to 90 degrees -- but from a purist's standpoint the wedge is best -- yeah, go for the wedge.

** I should also mention it is closer to the on-axis position, which probably helps in the case of dynamic mikes.

[GZsound]

We have a bluegrass band around here that uses a Rode NT4 stereo mic and it sounds quite nice.

As to the 4033, I was pleased as punch when bluegrass bands stopped using that mic as their single mic and started using actual LD mics like the Shure KSM mics, AT 4047/4050, etc.

I use a CAD M179 at most of my sound gigs and it works great on wide cardioid as a single mic.

[t_chance]

Originally Posted by GZsound

It is my understanding that Rhonda Vincent was offered Neumann mics and rejected them in favor of the Shure KSM 32/44 mics she uses.

And Ricky Skaggs uses those Shure mics also. They seem popular in the bluegrass community.

As does Jerry Douglas. I love my KSM32, but mainly use it as an instrument mic.
My KSM27 rocks on most female vocals. The AT 2020 is a standard in the bluegrass community "up north" in the midwest for the mono-mic setup.

[toneguru]

I have had the pleasure of working with Del McCoury on three different occasions.

Back around 1997 at The Ash Grove Theatre in Santa Monica. I forget how many mics we used that night.

Again around 2001 and 2004 at McCabe's Guitar Shop in Santa Monica.

On one night we did indeed use just one mic and Del would be closest to the mic and his two sons on fiddle and Mandolin would move in and out a little to balance their instruments or voices. The same guy was always on stand up bass and he would join in too. We used our house AKG if I remember correct. The AKG was some off model like a poor mans 414.

On another night they had one mic for Del (captured both voice and guitar) and one mic for the rest of the three guys. As I remember it they brought two of their own 414's for this night.

Del and his boys are the most gracious artists that I have ever worked with. Easiest show a soundman will ever run and one of the more enjoyable too.

- Cheers

[nobtwiddler]

I was at a show two years ago. A Blue Grass festival held here in upstate NY every year.
Was hanging out in the makeshift control room, the back of a 20 foot Ryder truck just next to the stage.

Del and the band was performing along with Steve Earle the last set of the night, actually the highlight of the three day festival, and they were using only one mic, not sure what model, but when I went up to the stage later it was a AT mic...

The set as you can imagine, was wonderful as was the recording.

As we all know, it's all about the artists performing, and the song.
The rest is........well

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

I was at a show two years ago. A Blue Grass festival held here in upstate NY every year.

Grey Fox???

[Barnabas]

I did sound for a six-band bluegrass festival this past weekend. About half of the bands used the single KSM32. For some it was the only mic, and some had two instrument mics (SM81) flanking the KSM32 to pick up instruments.

Some of the bands required individual vocal mics and instrument mics. The largest group was four vocal mics, six instrument mics, and the bass. One band asked for instrument mics as well as DIs for their instruments.

I really like the bands who mix themselves on a single LDC mic. It sounds great and looks classy.

I always provide two wedges or side fills. Only one group asked for anything in the monitors.

On a side note -- For years at this same festival I have always provided a RE-27 mic and a DI for the bass. This is the first year that all bass players used the DI. None used the mic. "The times, they are a changin'"