Tips on buying a small P.A.?

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Despite 'Jim vanBergen's advice above (and I don't want or mean to offend him!), I couldn't want to guide you away from the Tapco Thumps strongly enough. They're hideously inefficient drivers and cabinets, so despite their large size (15"), you just can't get ANY volume from them at all. A 15" speaker peaking at 114 dB is shocking. A QSC K8 (8" speaker) peaks at 127 dB. This is more than twice as loud...

No worries, Alex- this is a conversation and we're sharing information. Your suggestions are spot on, I just think you're going above the level of the desired suggestions. I DO think the QSC K series is a great value, just a full step above the Tapco/Mackie level I thought was more appropriate to this solution.

I was basing my thoughts on his original post:

"smallish P.A. for wedding type gigs. Mostly jazz band stuff, vocals, nothing too huge." THis makes me visualize 100-250 people at MOST, a PA that will work at 95-102dB in a ballroom that's maybe 80 x 100, with a 40x40 dance floor.

I would never suggest trying to generate more that 109 dB from a Tapco...to me, it's a cheapo solution for a small gig. I think that all the suggestions that make solutions cost $3k have zero choice or reality.

Since my "day" job is mixing large gigs with Clair I-5, Prism, Meyer, d&b, VerTec and L'Acoustics systems, I'd be quick to suggest pro level rigs, but to what end? I've mixed some huge celebrity weddings with 500k worth of PA, but that's not the realm of this thread.

I can promise you I wouldn't suggest anything made by EAW since the inconsistencies between driver components in their Chinese manufacturing have been disastrous, and most people I know who have bought in the last four years have replaced with different manufacturers already. Maybe this issue has been corrected, but I'd look carefully.

Joel, have you looked into any of these suggestions? Have you made a decision or a purchase?

Best regards to all!

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by autodidactic

+1 for QSC powered speakers. i have a pair that I have used for clubs and weddings (Greek music). They were about $900 each when I bought them. They sound absolutely amazing. They are heavy though since they're not plastic, only wood on the cabs and metals for the amp.

The KW12s weigh about 50 lbs and the K12s about 40. That's not terribly heavy when you consider the quality. I think the extra 10 lbs is worth it BTW

[rwhealey]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

Worse 2 power sources out there.

Any Mackie power amp, not dependable, horrible.
QSC RMX amps, omg they are NASTY, make sure you buy higher end QSC amps.

Huh? The QSC RMX series are very well regarded -- they're just a heavy, traditional design. I used a couple of their predecessor, the Mxa series, that had been going for 20 years. Sound quality is very high- in fact, most people prefer the RMXs as subwoofer amps over the PLX series. The RMX series does have an issue with the gain pots becoming really scratchy over time- maybe the problem you had?

In regards to the OP, check out a pair of EV SxA360s and a Mixwiz!

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by rwhealey

Huh? The QSC RMX series are very well regarded -- they're just a heavy, traditional design. I used a couple of their predecessor, the Mxa series, that had been going for 20 years. Sound quality is very high- in fact, most people prefer the RMXs as subwoofer amps over the PLX series. The RMX series does have an issue with the gain pots becoming really scratchy over time- maybe the problem you had?

In regards to the OP, check out a pair of EV SxA360s and a Mixwiz!

Had no issues cosmetic or pot wise with RMX, I just placed them beside higher end QSC, Crest Crown Microtech, Day and night difference my friend, RMX cannot compete, nasty freaking power is the problem, a huge one. A/B them and you will see, you will be looking for a place to unload the RMX stuff quick.

Far as Mackie, either the sh*t will blow up as in power amps. the mixers are fine if you can keep them not to fall in pieces or sticky buttons, never saw one that didn't.

[Blast9]

Thanks all -

Great thread...

Question - I have always been sceptical about the usefulness of subs for a rock/pop covers band... Do you think it is necessary?

I imagine it is redundant with a pair of QSC K series!

[matt_r]

Nexo is something I'd really recommend to check out. I've hired Nexo PS10 and PS15 systems and they're incredible. Not that cheap but really worth hearing I think - really punchy and sound very nice!

Welcome to Nexo

I actually didn't use subs for either of these and didn't feel the bass was lacking, I was surprised at the sound coming out of the small sized cabs.

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Thanks all -

Great thread...

Question - I have always been sceptical about the usefulness of subs for a rock/pop covers band... Do you think it is necessary?

I imagine it is redundant with a pair of QSC K series!

Depends on the size of the venue. A pair of QSC K12s by themselves will go very loud, but add in a pair of K-Subs (or good 15" subwoofers) and your system will be able to fill rooms more comfortably with more depth/punch, as well as fill larger venues (by freeing up the headroom which was taken up by the low end going to the tops).

The K-Sub is great, but there are more powerful subs out there for the price. The K-Sub is nonetheless, very musical and deep given it's footprint/weight.

[Guitfiddle]

What about EV Zx5A and Dynacord? QSC HPR/K/KW? Heard the QSC K12, sounded decent, but the demo had a problem and I didn't get to hear much of it before it quit working. Not good for QSC if your trying to sell it... I have used the EV SxA's, they sounded great for a floor monitor, never used them as mains. I have a lot of experience with Mackie. I used everything they have accept the new HD series. I like the z series mackies.(no longer sold) 4 way cab with 2 X 12's mid and tweet. Designed by EAW and Mackie...best sounding Mackie speaker. I have used those with 4 mackie 18" subs. Sounded really good. Used with an Allen & Heath GL2400.

[Icarus]

I have the QSC K12's, and I think they're perfect for shlepping to and fro. My mom did a concert at her church with them, and they definitely can pump. I'd say they're good for up to 200 people or so (conservative estimate).

Good luck!

Edit: Alexk was one of the guys who told me I should get the k12s, and he was not lying.

[perform/record]

in reply to post #1:

the number of channels on the mixer depends on the size of the band, if you'll be mic'ing the drums, if their are two or three key boards running in stereo, two or three vox, guitar(s), bass, maybe a sax, you'll need at least a 16 channel mixer. a digital mixer will be convenient for recalling all the settings once you've tweaked them to what is generally right. it will also have some on-board effects that could be useful and save you from having to purchase another piece(s) of gear. from the standpoint of vocals, and definitely if you plan to do what was mentioned above, your power amp should have 500+ watts of good, clean, continuous/rms power per channel (that's for a small pa). the main speaker cabs should handle that with their continuous/rms power rating. subs are another story, one nice 18" sub with 500 watts on it is definitely better than none, two is ideal (i don't know what the budget is). a pair of good sounding floor monitors are essential, actives are convenient. have a good compressor channel for the main vocalist(s), sweet reverb is a must, hopefully what's built into the digital mixer is usable. then there's mic's... if you have your preferences then go with those, if not, then go with the standards - sm57's and 58's... they work. put an akg d112 or a shure beta52 in the kick. that ought to get you started quite nicely.
hope that's helpful.