Tascam DR-680 8-Track Portable Field Audio Recorder

[kk@jamsync.com]

I'm wondering if anyone has either worked with one of these in the field or received audio material recorded on one of these units.

Comments?

Thanks!

[philper]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

I'm wondering if anyone has either worked with one of these in the field or received audio material recorded on one of these units.

Comments?

Thanks!

I looked at these and would have bought one except that the job I wanted it for fell through. Lots of comments and even test files here: TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track - announced at NAMM

One of the users sent me a test file re TC: here's what I found out:

>The file imported into BWAV Reader just fine as a BWF. (This app will throw an error if it thinks an import is an ordinary .wav file w/o metadata). It shows bext and other data chunks, reads as PCM 44.1 16 bit, with a TC start time of 20:07:00:23. Interestingly, the origination time is given as 20:08:03, whichI find odd since I thought the DR680 used its internal clock for TC stamping. It sees the filename as 100425_039_st12.wav. There is no frame rate shown, no description, originator or coding history. (Another note--the DR680 shows more chunk info than TC stamped BWFs recorded on an HDP2, but the HDP2 shows frame rate and originator.)

I imported the same file into Sound Devices Wave Agent. It shows the file as a 2 channel poly BWF, start TC 20:07:00:23, gives length and record date and sample rate and samples since midnight. Again, no scene/tape/take info, and no frame rate shown. (One could batch convert all the files to a project frame rate in this app...)

I take this to mean that one could record a TC/BWF job with this machine, and then add the frame rate info in WA if desired. One's TC notes might be a bit off from what the visible clock would say (I guess), since the time stamp seems at variance from the origination time (according to BWAV Reader) by over a minute. <

Philip Perkins

[kk@jamsync.com]

Thanks for the info and that's really weird...

What's "WA"? Wave Agent?

Thanks also for the link; I guess I'm going to be following this for awhile! Looks pretty cool for the money. That's one convoluted filename, for sure.

One thing I don't get is that looking at the i/o, it has 4 XLR/TRS and 2 1/4" TRS, so how does that make for 8 inputs for recording? Also add S/PDIF? That's a PITA.

[philper]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Thanks for the info and that's really weird...

What's "WA"? Wave Agent?

Thanks also for the link; I guess I'm going to be following this for awhile! Looks pretty cool for the money. That's one convoluted filename, for sure.

One thing I don't get is that looking at the i/o, it has 4 XLR/TRS and 2 1/4" TRS, so how does that make for 8 inputs for recording? Also add S/PDIF? That's a PITA.

Yeah WA is Wave Agent, the free app from Sound Devices--I'm pretty sure that BWAV Reader is Mac only, but there is a Windows v. of WA. I think you may have some control over the filename--that name was autogenerated by the recorder. The machine has 4 XLR mic/line, 2 TRS phone mic/line and 2 SPDIF inputs, all of which can be used at once (in addition to a mixdown pair that can be recorded as well). So 8 inputs, but only 6 analog. The machine will sync itself to an external clock via SPDIF, but that input has to be enabled for it to do this. I wish they had made the machine a few hundred dollars more expensive and put in the level of TC and ext sync functionality that the HDP2 has.....

Philip Perkins

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by philper

Yeah WA is Wave Agent, the free app from Sound Devices--I'm pretty sure that BWAV Reader is Mac only, but there is a Windows v. of WA. I think you may have some control over the filename--that name was autogenerated by the recorder. The machine has 4 XLR mic/line, 2 TRS phone mic/line and 2 SPDIF inputs, all of which can be used at once (in addition to a mixdown pair that can be recorded as well). So 8 inputs, but only 6 analog. The machine will sync itself to an external clock via SPDIF, but that input has to be enabled for it to do this. I wish they had made the machine a few hundred dollars more expensive and put in the level of TC and ext sync functionality that the HDP2 has.....

Philip Perkins

I agree about TC and ext sync. I'd definitely go with Sound Devices over that upscale Tascam unit that adds those features.

I would like to confirm that when you're recording on all 8 tracks that the frame edges of the A/D are locked to the incoming clock on the S/PDIF. If not, it's not such a big deal for multitrack w/o ambience, but it would be a definite deal killer for surround. I can't imagine they would make that mistake, but then, I don't really trust much anymore <g>. I believe that they're using the S/PDIF to cascade, so it must be OK, but...

Also, if you're using all inputs, I think that trashes your ability to have a stereo mixdown track because that would be 10 tracks.

I'm still reading that amazing thread...lots of info packed in there.

[tom_lowe]

The DR-680 is either 6 analogue in and a stereo mix-down track, or 6 analogue in + stereo S/PDIF in.

Why is the frame edge alignment so important for surround if you're only recording atmos/effects on it?

And Phil, I'm guessing they left off timecode to make it a competitor to the Edirol R-44 and also so people who need timecode upgrade to their P82. If this had timecode, they'd be short selling themselves on the high end machine.

[tilman]

I know someone who tested this unit ageinst the sounddevices 702....
maybe he could give some insights ....

I think the weakest part were the preamps who sounded phasy compared to the 702. He also mentioned that the Lowcut made the sound whorse.. (phasy)

A/D and Noisefloor seemed to be no problem.

I´ll send him a link to this thread...

cheers tilman

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

The DR-680 is either 6 analogue in and a stereo mix-down track, or 6 analogue in + stereo S/PDIF in.

Why is the frame edge alignment so important for surround if you're only recording atmos/effects on it?

And Phil, I'm guessing they left off timecode to make it a competitor to the Edirol R-44 and also so people who need timecode upgrade to their P82. If this had timecode, they'd be short selling themselves on the high end machine.

If the A/Ds are running off a different clock from the S/PDIF (and I can't see why they'd do this, but I've seen stranger stuff than that), and you're recording 7.1 surround, the soundstage won't be proper. Time alignment between 6th and 7th channels might be iffy anyway, due to time required for A/D conversion vs. straight digital recording that has already been converted.

I didn't imply that I would only be recording atmos and effects, either.

BTW, the phase problems mentioned in the other message are what I *would* expect.

I also don't think pros will go for the "high-end" Tascam since the Sound Devices has far more features for a thousand dollars more.

For those of you who remember the PCM F1, that half sample difference between the left and right channels made a *big* problem when laying back digitally and not correcting for the offset.

[tom_lowe]

Ah I thought you meant it'd be a problem with 5.1 surround. 7.1 and phase issues makes a lot of sense. But wouldn't the different A/D for the S/PDIF inputs be an issue too?

One thing that puts me off this machine is that the gain isn't linkable on the pres meaning adjustment would be harder.

Tascam are also obviously trying to make a dent in Zaxcom Deva sales with the P82 more than Sound Devices (just look how similar they are) and is clearly more designed for trolley use, rather than over the shoulder (although it would be possible), which Sound Devices tend to be used for more than on trolleys, although they are increasingly being used on trolleys, especially since the 788T was introduced.

The DR-680 is more aimed at SFX acquisition and over the shoulder use, possibly trying to appeal to people who do a lot of work on D-SLR shoots where timecode is non-existent unless using a digislate.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Ah I thought you meant it'd be a problem with 5.1 surround. 7.1 and phase issues makes a lot of sense. But wouldn't the different A/D for the S/PDIF inputs be an issue too?

.

Yes, even if the S/PDIF works for clocking the A/Ds, I think you'd need a buffer to realign the resultant digital streams. My take on it is that I'd trust it for 6-track analog input with 2-track mixdown, but I'd be leery of 8-channel recording for the moment.

Non-linked gain is a problem for quick adjustment, but as you say, it will be great for DSLR shoots. I just bought an f 1.2 lens for my Canon 5D Mark II, so I'm stoked to do some live stuff with that and my Soundfield. Not having to bring along my MBP and Apogee interface for Logic would be really convenient. I like computers for backup, but for field recording, I'd rather have a field recorder!

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Yes, even if the S/PDIF works for clocking the A/Ds

I realise that clocking via S/PDIF is possible, I meant in terms of sound, gain etc. being different as a result of using 2 different pre-amps/converters.

I use a great app called Boom Recorder on location, not had any troubles. Sure, I know what you mean about having a dedicated field recorder instead of a computer, especially if your doing a run and gun job, or want over the shoulder, it's not practical, but for internal stuff or setup shots outside, interviews etc. I've had no problems with a 13" MBP - just keep it in good order.

Could always run your Apogee (I'm guessing you have an Ensemble or Duet?) on Pro Tools ;-). Works very nicely.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

I realise that clocking via S/PDIF is possible, I meant in terms of sound, gain etc. being different as a result of using 2 different pre-amps/converters.

I use a great app called Boom Recorder on location, not had any troubles. Sure, I know what you mean about having a dedicated field recorder instead of a computer, especially if your doing a run and gun job, or want over the shoulder, it's not practical, but for internal stuff or setup shots outside, interviews etc. I've had no problems with a 13" MBP - just keep it in good order.

Could always run your Apogee (I'm guessing you have an Ensemble or Duet?) on Pro Tools ;-). Works very nicely.

I have an Ensemble, but I can't put the MBP and Ensemble on a shoulder strap and carry it. I do agree that having different converters/preamps can be a problem when you want consistency.

As I understand it, I can only use the Ensemble as a converter going into an MBox with PTLE (I have one of those), but to get six tracks, I'd need an 003 or something like that. Even then, the Ensemble would function as a standalone converter going into an 003. So that's *more* stuff to lug around.

When I do green screen in the studio, I can patch into an upstairs digital snake that goes to our router and record into PTHD in the mix room.

We just put in a new editing/color correction room and I decided to go with Logic and the Ensemble because it was so much cheaper than PT. I'd have to pony up 50K to do a setup like I have downstairs, so I can work in Logic and get a pretty good surround rough, export and finish the mix downstairs. I have to say, though, that Logic's manual using "diversity" instead of "divergence" is pretty damn funny and a little disconcerting!

[tom_lowe]

Yeah, for run and gun and over shoulder, I know a laptop is impractical! What kind of green screen work do you do?

As for Ensemble and Pro Tools it CAN work, without a Digi002/003 or MBox or any Digidesign/Avid hardware at all. Magic! Of course, Avid will strenuously deny this!

[charles maynes]

I used one with a holophone to record some horse track ambiences a few weeks ago- if the preamps are not hit hard it sounds fine. I would argue you couldnt tell it apart from a 744 for that sort of thing. It eats batteries if you run the phantom though. For under $1k it is almost a no-brainer. I think it sounds a little crispy with loud sources though, so be aware of its limitations....

[philper]

The Tascam people told me that when recording w/ the DR680 via SPDIF the recorder locks its convertor to the incoming SPDIF clock. I have not had a machine here to test its long term accuracy though. My guess is that its internal clock is about like a low cost interface (MOTU, PreSonus etc) w/o external clock, or the HDP2 on its internal clock (either of which are fine for takes under 10 min or so). In any case the DR680 seems like a great usable deal at its price point. The higher-end Tascam seems underpowered, clunky and too big for something that only costs $1000 less than a 788T.

Philip Perkins

[Strabinsky]

Originally Posted by philper

I looked at these and would have bought one except that the job I wanted it for fell through. Lots of comments and even test files here: TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track - announced at NAMM

I take this to mean that one could record a TC/BWF job with this machine, and then add the frame rate info in WA if desired. One's TC notes might be a bit off from what the visible clock would say (I guess), since the time stamp seems at variance from the origination time (according to BWAV Reader) by over a minute. <

Philip Perkins

Hi, I am not an owner (yet) of the 680. I am reading good words about it. I am looking for something smaller than the Metric Halo ULN8 I have for some less "pro" recordings, portable and without the use of a laptop.
But I was wondering also if could combine the two systems, having a total of 8+6=14 tracks.

I am trying to figure out how I could lineup the files of a same recording session where the musicians are playing all together, recorded in the two separate systems: one is the ULN8/Macbook/Logic Audio and the other the 680. Maybe I would record the drums with the 680 and the other instruments with the ULN8.
So, after the session, I would copy the files from the 680 to my Logic project, but of course I don't have any sync point to align the files... and I was thinking if connecting somehow the ULN8 with the 680 through AES/EBU could give a solution...
I know that you can timestamp the BWF files recorded with the ULN8. But I do not know if you can pass this information through AES/EBU to the files recorded with the 680.

Anyone has tried this out yet?

[tom_lowe]

The DR-680 only has S/PDIF for digital IO. No AES/EBU.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I used one with a holophone to record some horse track ambiences a few weeks ago- if the preamps are not hit hard it sounds fine. I would argue you couldnt tell it apart from a 744 for that sort of thing. It eats batteries if you run the phantom though. For under $1k it is almost a no-brainer. I think it sounds a little crispy with loud sources though, so be aware of its limitations....

I've definitely read somewhere that the DR-680 has less headroom than the 788T inputs. It's to be expected, I guess...still a great deal for 6-track recording.

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Yeah, for run and gun and over shoulder, I know a laptop is impractical! What kind of green screen work do you do?

As for Ensemble and Pro Tools it CAN work, without a Digi002/003 or MBox or any Digidesign/Avid hardware at all. Magic! Of course, Avid will strenuously deny this!

EPKs, music videos, documentaries.

I'm going to try your setup suggestion on my MBP with the Ensemble and PTLE...fingers crossed! What's the trick? Does the Ensemble show up in hardware setup? My copy of LE is pretty old, so I guess I'll have to spring for a SnoLep 8.x version (rrrrrrrr....

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

I've definitely read somewhere that the DR-680 has less headroom than the 788T inputs. It's to be expected, I guess...still a great deal for 6-track recording.

there is no confusing that, though the 788 was a pretty big disappointment for me-

the notion of not having analog limiters pre-A to D is just idiotic. It runs really hot and has relatively short battery life as well... it less than two 744's though...

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Could always run your Apogee (I'm guessing you have an Ensemble or Duet?) on Pro Tools ;-). Works very nicely.

Nope. This does not work with 8.0.3 LE on SnoLep. Just as I suspected, PT looks for an appropriate device (like an MBox) and bails if it does not find it. If you have connections to someone who has a step-by-step protocol, I'm all ears. The Ensemble can be a stand alone converter feeding a Digi device, but by itself, NO. Not working here. I tried Audio MIDI setup, Sound prefs, coreaudio driver, etc. Nothing, nada, nicht, not.

[Strabinsky]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

The DR-680 only has S/PDIF for digital IO. No AES/EBU.

Well the manual states it does have S/PDIF and AES/EBU.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by Strabinsky

Well the manual states it does have S/PDIF and AES/EBU.

Sorry, my bad, the website just mentions S/PDIF.

[philper]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

Sorry, my bad, the website just mentions S/PDIF.

They are on the same connector....change format in firmware.

Philip Perkins