Location recording: JoeCo BlackBox or...?

[Remoteness]

Good to know.

Originally Posted by remrec

You can lock 2 Black Boxes together with one rca/rca cable. We did record a festival for 4 days, 10 hours a day, with 2 of these units slaved together. They worked very well for us.

[JonesH]

Originally Posted by remrec

You can lock 2 Black Boxes together with one rca/rca cable. We did record a festival for 4 days, 10 hours a day, with 2 of these units slaved together. They worked very well for us.

Great info, very useful!

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by remrec

You can lock 2 Black Boxes together with one rca/rca cable. We did record a festival for 4 days, 10 hours a day, with 2 of these units slaved together. They worked very well for us.

awesome!

[gtalife]

Have used the Joeco blackbox 4 times...so far I'm liking this unit, quick and easy to set up/plug into the sound desk. Still love the HD24, serves me well, and a must for when i have to use a splitter.

[David.H]

As it was the first time literally out of the box we backed up the JoCo Blackbox with an Alesis HD 24. However the Backbox was so easy to use that its files are being used. I only used 7 out of the 10 stems, which took about 6 minutes to transfer from the external hard drive, which was a breeze. The location program was in two parts lasting about 50 minutes each.
Here is a list of the kit used on the day.

Mixer: TF (Ted Fletcher) Pro16. Direct outs + stereo mix from this were fed (all on RTS jack plugs) to a Lynx Aurora 16 A/D D/A converter fitted with an ADAT card, running at 24/44.1; mike stems on channels 1 - 8, the stereo mix on channels 9 & 10. The outputs from the ADAT card were fed into the Alesis. The AES/EBU signals from the Lynx were fed to a JoCo Blackbox with an AES/EBU board. Both Alesis and BB were sync'd to the Aurora via their respective signal inputs (as suggested by Joe Bull, no external sync cables were used). Thanks to Joe Bull for the loan of the AES/EBU cables.
In addition, the stereo mix from the TF Pro16 was also sent via its XLR o/p to a Fostex FR 2 LE, so the stereo mix was recorded three times.
The monitor o/p from the TF Pro16 was fed to a Spirit Folio mixer to drive the cordless headphones. Compressed monitor o/p from the BB was fed to a pair of Sennheiser HD650 h'phones.

Mikes: Main Pair (suspended) - Schoeps MK21; O'riggers - Sennheiser MKH20; woodwind support mikes - Schoeps MK4; soloist accent mike - Sennheiser MKH40. Fed down the nave to recording position at West end via 8-way snake.

[ebulb]

Take it from me the HD24 is far from reliable in a live situation.. At least in my experience this has proven to be the case.. It may be better if you're in a truck outside or you can obtain complete isolation from the stage and FOH volume but if you are going to use this out front at loud gigs i would seriously suggest you consider the altrenatives..

The reported "fixes" do not work 100% of the time, its arguable if they do anything at all as the problem is very random in nature. It doesnt happen exclusively on bass frequencies like you may think, ive had drop outs where its just a guitar strumming a chord and nowhere near the loudest moments of the show. I never thought i would see the day where i run a DAW as a backup but thats whats happened here and it is ridiculous when you think about it.

If you look at Alesis info on their webpages there is no mention of the HD24 units being suitable for recording live. Other dedicated hard drive units like the fostex or the joeco specifically market the item as being able to record live but the Alesis dont... My feeling is they became aware of the problems along the way and jeddisoned support for it.. I have also emailed them asking if they thought it would be a suitable unit to record live just to see what they would say and i was told it is not made for this purpose but "should work".

As far as the unit itself goes its solid design and simple to use, it would be fantastic if it worked 100% of the time in all scenarios. As i say if you are planning to use it anywhere near the stage or the FOH its very likely to cause you problems at some point, especially at louder gigs.

[philper]

Originally Posted by ebulb

Take it from me the HD24 is far from reliable in a live situation.. At least in my experience this has proven to be the case.. It may be better if you're in a truck outside or you can obtain complete isolation from the stage and FOH volume but if you are going to use this out front at loud gigs i would seriously suggest you consider the altrenatives..

The reported "fixes" do not work 100% of the time, its arguable if they do anything at all as the problem is very random in nature. It doesnt happen exclusively on bass frequencies like you may think, ive had drop outs where its just a guitar strumming a chord and nowhere near the loudest moments of the show. I never thought i would see the day where i run a DAW as a backup but thats whats happened here and it is ridiculous when you think about it.

If you look at Alesis info on their webpages there is no mention of the HD24 units being suitable for recording live. Other dedicated hard drive units like the fostex or the joeco specifically market the item as being able to record live but the Alesis dont... My feeling is they became aware of the problems along the way and jeddisoned support for it.. I have also emailed them asking if they thought it would be a suitable unit to record live just to see what they would say and i was told it is not made for this purpose but "should work".

As far as the unit itself goes its solid design and simple to use, it would be fantastic if it worked 100% of the time in all scenarios. As i say if you are planning to use it anywhere near the stage or the FOH its very likely to cause you problems at some point, especially at louder gigs.

I haven't found any multitrack solution w/ a track count above 8 or so that always works each and every time in each and every situation. That's why everyone around here is always going on about backup, I think.

Philip Perkins

[benoïde]

What about a mac laptop + madi card + converters + boom recorder?

I know guys who use that, don't know if it's super reliable, though. Last I heard, a friend used it to record several shows at a jazz festival, used that setup all day without any problem.

[boojum]

I am biased but I will put this out there anyway: the SD 788T can now link to the entire SD 7nn series. Two of them yield 16 inputs and 24 channels. And so on up the line. They can be daisy-chained. The SD 7nn platform has been reliable for me. It has a compact form factor and excellent sound and flexibility. I know this may not be everyone's solution but it is a solution.

[recordinghopkins]

I frequently find myself squeezed into wherever I can fit in very small venues, with very loud bands. Luckily, I have yet to experience any failure at all of my HD24xr. I was located directly behind the sub array one night, still, no problems. Keeping fingers crossed and backup running...

[ebulb]

Originally Posted by philper

I haven't found any multitrack solution w/ a track count above 8 or so that always works each and every time in each and every situation. That's why everyone around here is always going on about backup, I think.

Philip Perkins

I know you cannot expect 100% reliablity, but i would say failure rates of 5% or less is reliable, the HD24 could be as high as 30% failure if its put in the enviroments it doesnt like.

[philper]

Originally Posted by ebulb

I know you cannot expect 100% reliablity, but i would say failure rates of 5% or less is reliable, the HD24 could be as high as 30% failure if its put in the enviroments it doesnt like.

Understood, which is why the higher profile the gig is the more backup matters, it would seem. One factor in all of this is cost, what can you afford to work with given the gigs you do, vs the reliability factor? I think this trade off sells a lot of HD24s (and computer-based rigs).

Philip Perkins

[sonare]

I have used my HD24 in every scenario EXCEPT rock-- including a loud blues concert with the HD24 at the FOH console which was in the middle of the house. SPL around 95-100dB. Never a single "issue" so I think I can call this unit 100% reliable.

The only caveat is to make sure the jumper on the HD is in the MASTER position or the drive will not mount.

Rich

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by sonare

I have used my HD24 in every scenario EXCEPT rock-- including a loud blues concert with the HD24 at the FOH console which was in the middle of the house. SPL around 95-100dB. Never a single "issue" so I think I can call this unit 100% reliable.

The only caveat is to make sure the jumper on the HD is in the MASTER position or the drive will not mount.

Rich

My uses are similar and performance has also been flawless. Always have a backup though!

[sonare]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

My uses are similar and performance has also been flawless. Always have a backup though!

The HD24 is the backup.

Rich

[shproductions03]

I can't wait for my JoeCo boxs to come in. I'm very excited about the idea of a 1 rack space 24 track right to wave files, no transfers after the gig from the HD24. Plus Im looking forward to a lighter box no more 100+ pound rack with two HD24. I like the HD24's for the money, I have had problems with mine dropouts and such, but if the blackbox works well I will phase out my HD24's

[sonare]

If your HD24s are X models I am interested in buying one.

Rich

[Corran]

I might be interested in one too, if Rich doesn't want both (hopefully ).

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by sonare

The HD24 is the backup.

Rich

Your primary is Prism Orpheus > computer, right?

[sonare]

correct

[radlid]

I used two joeco's to record about 14 bands on two stages in one night.
My thoughts are these:

It's incredible portable and easy to use. The concept is great as I'm sure you know. But this box however needs some work.
The touch screen type buttons is a BAD idea. I.E. if you swipe your finger close to the but not on the record button it starts recording. Luckily you have to hold it in to make it stop recording. Most of the buttons are very sensitive like this.
You can only solo in pairs i.e. if you wanna solo the kick on ch. 1 you have to solo pair 1-2. So meaning you get kick in the left ear and snare in the right ear. This is sooooo stupid!!! According to the company rep I talked to at AES 2010 he said that it has been updated. Also the headphone amp is not loud at all. If you're in a loud venue recording forget about it...

[philper]

Originally Posted by radlid

I used two joeco's to record about 14 bands on two stages in one night.
My thoughts are these:

It's incredible portable and easy to use. The concept is great as I'm sure you know. But this box however needs some work.
The touch screen type buttons is a BAD idea. I.E. if you swipe your finger close to the but not on the record button it starts recording. Luckily you have to hold it in to make it stop recording. Most of the buttons are very sensitive like this.
You can only solo in pairs i.e. if you wanna solo the kick on ch. 1 you have to solo pair 1-2. So meaning you get kick in the left ear and snare in the right ear. This is sooooo stupid!!! According to the company rep I talked to at AES 2010 he said that it has been updated. Also the headphone amp is not loud at all. If you're in a loud venue recording forget about it...

The main way the JoeCo was designed to be used was with a console, on its insert i/o. The brilliance of this is that if you are hearing through your console, you are hearing thru your JoeCo. If you solo on your board, you are soloing the JoeCo return. Some of the criticism of this recorder seems to be around it being hard to monitor, but at least it has a solo function on its own headphone jack, unlike the HD24. If you want to use the JoeCo without a console in front of it (ie w/ preamps), then you'll want a monitor mixer, as you would with the Alesis.

phil p

[radlid]

Sure it was designed to be used for a specific purpose. But it seems that with minor tweeks this box would be worth it's weight in gold! And with those little tweaks it's seems very obvious that the customer target would broaden immensely.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by radlid

Sure it was designed to be used for a specific purpose. But it seems that with minor tweeks this box would be worth it's weight in gold! And with those little tweaks it's seems very obvious that the customer target would broaden immensely.

Well, certainly Joe has been tweaking and listening to customer feedback as there are far more options and versions of the box now - including a Dante version...