Locking Video to Sound (I've done my research here are my ?'s)

[David Lee]

I have a live music venue which does LOTS of live recording and filming. We have a very extensive library that, when material was made, we made it by locking sound to picture by doing the lip sync thing in FCP. I mix the audio blindly and FTP it to my video editors.

We should be ready to make some upgrades next year and i want to know...

I want to be able to see what I'm mixing to, and lock sound to picture quicker and easier. What i would like to do, is track the night, stripe SMPTE code to what i'm recording and what he's filming. Ideally, i'd like take the raw tape, load it into my DAW, mix the audio and lay it back to another tape and send that to the editors, or send them the footage locked to picture on a hard drive so they can load it right into FCP.

Right now, we're using a Panasonic DVX100A to shoot picture single camera shoots only, and I'm tracking in (please don't laugh too hard) the old Ensoniq Paris system, then converting everything to AIFF or WAV to mix in Nuendo. I like tracking in Paris because i like the way it sounds and i can track 32 inputs with that rig and only 24 with my other Nuendo rig. I have a Big Ben doing all the necessary clocking tasks.

I'd like to know what kind of gear I need. I THINK i need something to send SMPTE code to my camera on the floor, and my DAW, and a DV loader. But I don't know this for sure. A little guidance would really help, I have some people I'll be asking soon but there are some pretty sharp heads on this forum.

[Dobroman]

I know of no way of locking the Panasonic DVX 100a to timecode.
We do basicly the same as you. We have found on way of doing this. And don't forget the DVX-100a's audio is two frames off when shooting in 24p mode. We use a Alesis HD24 for the remote multi-track, dump to pro tools and syn by hand. I amazes me that we can hand sync at the head to a 45 minute video of a live show and the audio does not drift. It most likely does a few samples by I can't see it.

[David Lee]

this is what we do too and it works fairly well, but sometimes finding something to slate with (if you didn't manually do it, which the guy who usually shoots forgets on a very regular basis) can be a pain.

every time the camera stops and starts they have to resync the picture/sound.

GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!

[audioez]

Originally Posted by David Lee

I'd like to know what kind of gear I need. I THINK i need something to send SMPTE code to my camera on the floor, and my DAW, and a DV loader. But I don't know this for sure. A little guidance would really help, I have some people I'll be asking soon but there are some pretty sharp heads on this forum.

It's been my experience on the audio machine room side of things. For instance, When working on a video shoot that was meant for TV in NORTH AMERICA/JAPAN(NTSC).

In the audio machine room I'd take the house sync from the TV truck parked on the street, as well as time of day TC 29.97D. This was just a simple coax and XLR line that the TV truck would run to the audio machine room. Once the signal hit the machine room the house sync was fed into a video DA and sent to every record deck(3348, DA88, DAW's). Same with the time of day TC, it was fed into a time code DA, which then feeds all of the recording machines TC inputs.

I'd let the video people send you the time code and house sync...

[dolo72]

Hey
Ive done alot of this type of stuff for MTV europe and others like Slim shady records with up to 12 cameras. When we used dv cameras without TC inputs then we use a Blackbox radio timecode system(www.blackbox.com) this just sends the time code to a small radio receiver that plugs into one of the audio inputs. The audio track on the video is then used as the timecode track. Basically in a fixed setup you could just send the timecode from the DAW to one of the audio inputs of the camera and this is just the price of one lead. The audio sytem should always be the master clock and I set mine for free run and use time of day for easy reference. Just try doing some tests the single lead thing should work. I would just test by pointing the camera at the DAW timecode clock and record for a full tape. Then put the daw on slave, playback the camera with the audio output going to the DAW timecode input and then just visually compare the two timecode clocks. It would be better just to go near the end of the dv tape and compare then to see how many frames have drifted.

Good luck

[ellery]

My guess is there is not a video truck to generate House sync. The good news is Paris will generate Midi Time code.


Here is how you would generate MTC out of Paris.

Software side
Paris as a Master to external sequencer:
(External Sequencer MUST be able to receive MTC)
Open the MIDI Devices window
Click in the blank box next to INPUT for Paris MIDI Out

Hardware

I have used a JL Cooper PPS2 to do this before.

Take a MIDI cable and Go from MIDI out on your Paris system to MIDI in on the cooper BOX. Next take an Audio line from sync OUT to an audio input on your camera. Now Start the camera then start Paris in record mode.

To play back synced up

Software
Paris as a Slave to external Sequencer:
(External Sequencer MUST be able to transmit MTC)
Open the MIDI Devices window
Click in the blank box next to INPUT for Paris MIDI In

Hardware

This time take the midi cable from MIDI out on the cooper box to the MIDI in on Paris. Now take a line level out from your camera to the sync in on the Paris Box.

Now rewind the tape and press play

[Jim vanBergen]

House sync is the best way to do this, (I personally dislike using MTC) but you need a frame reference as well to minimize drift on long program. Were you planning to send sync to an audio track on the DV cam?

[David Lee]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Were you planning to send sync to an audio track on the DV cam?

Yes, I was hoping to.

Know how to do this wirelessly?

good information guys, thank you!

[Jim vanBergen]

To send sync to the DV cam wirelessly you need to either get a camera-mounted RF mic or use an IEM rig to send line level SMPTE to the camera. Either way you will probably need to re-shape the SMPTE after it goes in. I'm assuming you are planning on running SMPTE to one channel and a camera mounted shotgun mic on the other so you have a reference tone?

Remember that SMPTE is a series of square waves, and you need to test the signal at every gain stage point to insure its going to pass well. (Learned this one the hard way LONG time ago as an A2 for someone else, using battery operated RF mics with SMPTE "line level" in to receiver strapped to the camera. Oy Vey!)

[dolo72]

srry gave the wrong link for the radio timecode transmiter here it is - www.blackboxvideo.com/ .
The main system I use are the lockit boxes from Ambient (germany). These boxes jam sync to the master clock and output both Time code and the Video clock ref (same as house sync) to the camera. The TC on audio input method is mainly used for pick up shots that aren't running for the length of the show. I would always do a test of any sync route, this should tell you how many frames drop etc.
I think Denecke in your part of the world might make similar devices to the lockit box. Should be easy to find on www