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What mic for indoor film shoot
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mkh416
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#1
13th June 2010
Old 13th June 2010
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Question What mic for indoor film shoot

hi,

What mics/mic types are recommended for indoor filming?

Next week, I will be doing location sound for a no-budget short film, which is to be shot entirely in a small appartment and I would like to get a suitable mic.

So far i have been using the MKH416 coz it seemed like the best mic I have at my disposal (gear list in sig).

I have read that the smaller the space the less directional the mic ought to be.
At this rate I have a pair of NT5s, one of which I have an omni cap for (NT45-0).
Would this be better than the MKH416 in this case?
Is there an indoor mic which is equivalently ubiquitous to the MKH416?
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13th June 2010
Old 13th June 2010
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Traditionally in film, the 416 is the go-to mic for outdoor work, & the indoor mic is without a the Schoeps CMC w/ MK41.

You can still use the 416, and I've used many mics...but indoor, I think the mk41 blows away the competition. I've never tried a Senn 8040 or a DPA 4021 since they came out, though. :>)


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh416 View Post
hi,

What mics/mic types are recommended for indoor filming?

Next week, I will be doing location sound for a no-budget short film, which is to be shot entirely in a small appartment and I would like to get a suitable mic.

So far i have been using the MKH416 coz it seemed like the best mic I have at my disposal (gear list in sig).

I have read that the smaller the space the less directional the mic ought to be.
At this rate I have a pair of NT5s, one of which I have an omni cap for (NT45-0).
Would this be better than the MKH416 in this case?
Is there an indoor mic which is equivalently ubiquitous to the MKH416?
mkh416
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13th June 2010
Old 13th June 2010
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Thanks for that. I had heard the name before but couldn't remember it or find it.
So just to confirm, are these the items in question ?
CMC
MK41

This is (as I expected) out of my budget for the moment.
Is there a cheaper alternative for this type of job?

Thanks
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13th June 2010
Old 13th June 2010
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Oktava MK012 with hypercardioid capsule is the standard indie indoor mic. Cheap but good, plenty good enough for any video work. Beware of chinese copies.

Oktava MK-012 condenser microphone. Oktava-online - only genuine Russian made studio microphones

I have a 3 x 2 matched capsule stereo set, quite usefull quite often. Cost under 600€ some years ago. Single mic should not be much over $200.

I would not use omni (exept as a lavelier, of course), but cardioids and especially hypercardioids work well indoors. I suppose it is because the reflections do not sound natural with shotguns, which have unnatural and unbalanced side lobes. Outside it does not matter so much, as the side sounds have no relation to the main source. Short mics are also much easier to use and place/hide in cramped scenes.

DVXuser site has tons of info about Oktavas and suspensions/windshields which fit them.
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13th June 2010
Old 13th June 2010
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This may sound stupid, but why not just hire the Schoeps rig for the duration of the shoot? You can get some time with it, bill the hire to production (or work it into your rate if you're "expected" to have it), and see if it's something you would like to work with down the road.

DPs don't always bring their own cameras and grip gear, there's no reason why a recordist has to own 100% of their kit.

Just my 2p! thumbsup
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13th June 2010
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Yes, the Schoeps rigs are sort of the "standard" interior mic for dialog. And yes, they are frightfully expensive.

Sennheiser 416s have been used on interiors, but as was pointed out, there is often a problem of comb filtering which is merely a function of an interference tube design with nearby reflective surfaces. I have never used the Octavas but if you were going to buy, it would probably be a good addition to your kit.

It is interesting that I almost never use my Schoeps mics on motion pictures any more. The one exception is if my boomman needs to get under a low ceiling or follow actors through a doorway. Schoeps makes a priceless accessory for it's CMC line called a GVC. This is an adjustable swivel that mounts between the head and the amp which allows the height of the mic to be reduced (the amp lies parallel to the pole, the head swivels down to it's proper position). That and Collette cables make the Schoeps rig very versatile. I still always carry them.

I have found that my go-to mic has become the Sanken CS3e. I use it indoors as well as outdoors. It looks like an interference tube mic but due to it's design, does not exhibit the typical comb filtering around reflective surfaces, and has, I believe, considerably more "reach" than a Schoeps with an MK41 (hypercardioid) head. Of course, these are frightfully expensive as well, and just another part of a complete mic kit.

Renting a mic is a bit dicey because, not being under one's control, who knows what abuse it has suffered at the hands of the last renter. These guys are pretty fragile, and expensive to maintain. It might be easier to rent a Sennheiser MKH50 (hyper) and I actually love these as well. The big sound shops, East Coast and West Coast, will have these (and maybe the Schoeps.)

If you can make enough kit rental on the job to buy an Octava, it would probably serve you well for many years and remain in your kit for a long time. Even if you own one of the expensive mics, there are times when an Octava is just the ticket. Big explosions come to mind, auto gun fire, etc. where I am always leery of using a "good" mic for fear of damage. UPMs are happier paying $200 for a damaged mic than $12-1700.

D.
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mkh416
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13th June 2010
Old 13th June 2010
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Thanks for all the replies. I am sold on the Oktava MK 012 with hypercardioid capsule, thanks!

Just about to click buy, but 2more questions:

1)
Is silver ok for movie work?
I ask because where I would prefer to buy from only has the silver, but if needed I can buy from the black version from Oktava website directly, for just 35 dollars extra.

2)
is there any point to a Rycote Softie / generic widshield f for indoors only?
#8
14th June 2010
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If silver does not work for some reason, just wrap some black gaffer tape around it...

Here is the wind protection for Oktava MK012:

Baby Ball Gag » Rycote

Can not remember what size the body is. The ball is pried open and Oktava pushed out connector end first, as it is thicker at the capsule end (no joke, this was actually asked by someone, helpless with the BBG and Oktava in hand...).

I have used mk012 naked in situations where it was indoors and stationary above the talents. If it is to be boomed and moved, then BBG is necessary, give also some mechanical protection.
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14th June 2010
Old 14th June 2010
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Thanks you all very much!
I'll go buy now!
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14th June 2010
Old 14th June 2010
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Actually... One final question... Can anyone recommend a good shock mount for the 012?

Oktava site recommends this
Oktava -- Shop
but I'm sure it's not much good and is only recommended as they don't carry something better.
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14th June 2010
Old 14th June 2010
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Check out the Shure A53M.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh416 View Post
Actually... One final question... Can anyone recommend a good shock mount for the 012?

Oktava site recommends this
Oktava -- Shop
but I'm sure it's not much good and is only recommended as they don't carry something better.
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14th June 2010
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14th June 2010
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Re: What mic for indoor film shoot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh416
Actually... One final question... Can anyone recommend a good shock mount for the 012?

Oktava site recommends this
Oktava -- Shop
but I'm sure it's not much good and is only recommended as they don't carry something better.
Rycote video mount - the Rycote "lyre" suspensions are the best there are - and inexpensive to boot.



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15th June 2010
Old 15th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot View Post
Schoeps makes a priceless accessory for it's CMC line called a GVC. This is an adjustable swivel that mounts between the head and the amp which allows the height of the mic to be reduced (the amp lies parallel to the pole, the head swivels down to it's proper position). That and Collette cables make the Schoeps rig very versatile. I still always carry them.
If it's JUST the 41 flavour you need, it would probably be cheaper to get a CCM41 than a CMC/GVC/MK41 combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh416 View Post
1)
Is silver ok for movie work?
I ask because where I would prefer to buy from only has the silver, but if needed I can buy from the black version from Oktava website directly, for just 35 dollars extra.

2)
is there any point to a Rycote Softie / generic widshield f for indoors only?

The silver Oktavas will become matte silver quite quickly anyway. Light stands (C-stands!) are silver too.
As a windshield, you will only need foam indoors. Anything fitting mics with the Oktava diameter will work. You might want to go for a little longer version, as the Oktava heads are wider at the front than at the body. Some creative fixing might be necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh416 View Post
Actually... One final question... Can anyone recommend a good shock mount for the 012?
Rycote InVision. Lightweight, small, good shock reduction.
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15th June 2010
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Suspensions: K-Tek K-SSM for boom, Rycote InVision "lyres" for stationary placement (much too delicate for swinging the mic around).
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15th June 2010
Old 15th June 2010
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Thanks folks.
Re Shockmount:
At this stage it won't be possible to get delivery of a shock mount before this weekend's shoot (which will demand some fast and long boom movements).

I have the Rycote WS4 Kit but have only used it fairly stationery - would the lyres in the WS4 be suitable for dynamic booming or just the same as the InVision lyres?

Re Windshield:
BBG was ordered upon recommendation from Petrus, but if foam will do, I still have time to cancel the order tomorrow and use my NT5's foam windshields.
So I would love to hear some more opinions on using just foam indoors.
As I said though, the shoot will be quite dynamic in parts.

Thanks,
416
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15th June 2010
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Re: What mic for indoor film shoot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus
Suspensions: K-Tek K-SSM for boom, Rycote InVision "lyres" for stationary placement (much too delicate for swinging the mic around).
Not true - the Rycote lyre was *designed* for swinging the mic. around.

The InVision came later - and there are smaller ones for stationary use and others for throwing around.


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15th June 2010
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Re: What mic for indoor film shoot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkh416
Thanks folks.
Re Shockmount:
At this stage it won't be possible to get delivery of a shock mount before this weekend's shoot (which will demand some fast and long boom movements).

I have the Rycote WS4 Kit but have only used it fairly stationery - would the lyres in the WS4 be suitable for dynamic booming or just the same as the InVision lyres?

Re Windshield:
BBG was ordered upon recommendation from Petrus, but if foam will do, I still have time to cancel the order tomorrow and use my NT5's foam windshields.
So I would love to hear some more opinions on using just foam indoors.
As I said though, the shoot will be quite dynamic in parts.

Thanks,
416
The lyres in your WS4 will be fine for dynamic booming with a 416.

If you are worried add an extra lyre and use 3 instead of the normal 2. Easily obtainable from Rycote.


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15th June 2010
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Thanks muchly John!
I'll try the WS4 with the Oktava MK 012 and use a third lyre which I have spare.

What are your thoughts on using a foam windshield instead of a BBG for dynamic booming?

Thanks
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16th June 2010
Old 16th June 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Not true - the Rycote lyre was *designed* for swinging the mic. around.

The InVision came later - and there are smaller ones for stationary use and others for throwing around.


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OK, I stand corrected, I forgot the windshield lyres (even thought I have one S-series Rycote...).

Get what the Man says.

K-Tek suspension would be better for shotguns anyway, they are quite stiff.
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19th June 2010
Old 19th June 2010
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As the Oktava MK012 I ordered didn't arrive I'm faced with this choice;
MKH416 Vs Rode NT5.
Neither are ideal for indoor use but which would be better.

Thanks,
416.
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19th June 2010
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