Mandolins

[craig hoyas]

I'm looking to record a folk band, and I'm trying to get some definition between the 2 acoustic guitars, the banjo player, and still trying to get the mandolin to cut through the mix.

Any tips on recording mandolin in a folk band AND/OR a good way to get it to come through in a live setting? I know the mandolinist has been using a guitar sound hole pick-up because the mics feed back too much in a live setting?

[hbphotoav]

One of my favorite mando sounds was recorded at a live gig three years ago. Andy Leftwich was playing through a KM84 through a Gordon mic amp. Sweet. Dave Sinko (Punch Brothers FOH) owns the mic and the Gordon and was mixing the show. I was providing PA gear and tracking it. Bass (Dave Pomeroy), dobro (Rob Ickes) and mando... in a nice jazz arrangement of "Do You Hear What I Hear". Yummy.

KM84 notwithstanding, try a DPA 4099 with the violin/mando mounting option in the live scenario. And try to talk them into IEMs.

[GZsound]

This seems like an interesting problem.

I normally use a SD condenser on the mando in the studio and never have a problem getting it to stand out in the mix. In live situations, I use a SD condenser or even an SM57 depending on the room acoustics and again, feedback and clarity are rarely an issue.

I am wondering if the two guitars are the problem instead of the mandolin. With two guitars going at it hammer and tong, they can overpower the other instruments easily. The banjo can take over too.

I would work with EQ and try cutting some of the low end out of the guitars.

The comments about feedback when using a mic on the mandolin is a concern. Unless the band wants their monitors up to some amazing level, I can't imagine getting feedback on a mando mic.

Most of the bands I work with are not fans of IEM's because they take away the natural blend they are used to hearing when they rehearse. I know that many of the big national bands use IEM's, but a lot of them don't. And getting feedback through a mandolin mic tells me something is really wrong with the PA setup.

[buzzjoe]

Try a Schoeps MK41. Wonderfull for mandolins and quite good seperation from the other instruments.

[Enginearing]

Any more thoughts from the gallery on mando mics?

I was thinking a ribbon would round out the harshness found in some SDCs though haven't had a chance to try. has anybody miced a mandolin with M160 or peluso ribbon with favourable results?

as for the OP I wouldn't have thought mando would have trouble cutting through. as a previous poster said maybe too much is going on with the two guitars?

(folk music so you may not want the guitars too fat anyways)

[api2500]

Would an omni sound more natural and capture the room sound too?

[GZsound]

Originally Posted by Enginearing

Any more thoughts from the gallery on mando mics?

I was thinking a ribbon would round out the harshness found in some SDCs though haven't had a chance to try. has anybody miced a mandolin with M160 or peluso ribbon with favourable results?

as for the OP I wouldn't have thought mando would have trouble cutting through. as a previous poster said maybe too much is going on with the two guitars?

(folk music so you may not want the guitars too fat anyways)

I haven't used an M160 on mandolin, but have used an M260 and was not overly pleased. The mandolin needs to be clear, clean and have good "bite" in most of the music I record, which is bluegrass as opposed to folk. I would imagine a warm mandolin might be useful in folk music.

I still find it hard to believe that the mandolin is buried and still think the problem is with the guitars, not the mando.

I think the problem is, to quote Deep Purple on their Made In Japan album: "I want everything louder than everything else".

[Teddy Ray]

I record a lot of bluegrass, a LOT.

My favorite way to record this instrument is to use a nice ribbon microphone(my favorites are Coles 4040s and Beyer m160) micing the F hole, coupled with a SDC (cardiod) pointed around the 10th fret or so, beginning about 6 to 10 inches out.

using both the ribbon and the condensor gives a nice balance of "bite" and "euphony" .

I read about this in one of Chuck Ainlay's posts..(an Elite Bluegrass/Country music recording specialist), but I added my own spin on it.


by the way, when I was in the Stamps, our road manager was telling us about the opening of the Bluegrass HoF in Kentucky... well, they brought Bill's Mandolin (a 1923 Lloyd Loar F-5 instrument(the most beautiful sounding and highly sought after mandolins..sorta like the Stradivarius of Bluegrass) that had been destroyed by a home invader with a fire poker..the Gibson luthiers reconstructed the instrument from 150 slivers of wood!),,anyway..

when they brought the mandolin in, it had its own security detail...like 5 armed guards. Not average joes either..but Legit, Cock Diesel Killers!

and the best way to get it to come through, really..

do like many bluegrass groups do...stand around one mic. learn to blend naturally. when it is time for a solo or a run, step up to the mic slightly and when the solo is over..step back.

[Enginearing]

pics of the mando teddy is talking about

repairs by Charlie Derrington

[DannyL]

Try Countryman Isomax II hypercardioids. Great isolation, very natural sound, excellent gain before feedback and very low self noise.

I use the Countryman sax clip with a piece of 10 gauge solid copper wire (with a black plastic jacket) to position the mic. Clip the mic about 1/8 inch away from the grommet on the mic cable...this will act as a shock mount and greatly reduce any handling noise or vibration.


Danny