Orpheus - pulling the plug for location work?

[chemelneme]

Thanks Dave!

My work is basically recording Heavy Metal... I use lots of tracks, up to 30 sometimes and lots of plugins too. So the most important factor for me is performance (low latency, no cpu spikes) and the sound quality.

I can choose to buy the UFX or the Orpheus. For some reason, even though I´ve never used one, I think the UFX will perform much better in terms of stability, efficiency.... It's just the way good german products are made, just plug them and they work, period. I've had this experience with Mics, Preamps, Cars, industrial machinery, you name it.

In the case of the Orpheus, I keep reading big praises about it's sound quality. Yet in other cases, some people dismiss this big difference between A/D D/A converters.

So...I'm still a bit undecided. I don´t want to spend 2k on the RME and think I could get a better sound with the Orpheus. On the other hand, I know that RME makes the best drivers and has great performance/stability.

Is it possible for you to do the same blind test, between the FF800 and the Orpheus, using more tracks? In my work I find that differences between mikes and preamps, become much more noticeable when the track count is higher. For some reason great equipment mixes better. If I compare my UA 6176, with my Focusrite twintrak, of course there is a difference between their sound, but is not like the Focusrite has a "bad sound" compared to the 6176. It's just a different color. However, when you start mixing a track done with the 6176 and one done with the Focusrite, the difference is night and day indeed.

Sorry to bother so much! thanks once again.

[Empiria]

I work on location only. My experience with Orpheus made me move into stand-alone recorders. I had too many drivers problems and finally I stopped trusting its stability. I know some people would say Texas Instrument FW card, etc. but I don't buy it. Same latop used to work well with other interfaces. On the other hand, when comparing digital to analog convertion to cheap TC Konnekt, my feeling really WAS like night and day. The difference was huge. No experience with RME, though.

[rumleymusic]

I certainly plan never to purchase another firewire interface. Too many problems in general. USB connectivity is fine, especially if we are talking about the RME. It will be interesting to see what Prism does in the next couple of years with the newer generation of USB and lightpeak.

[chemelneme]

Hello Empiria! thanks for your input... Actually your experience with the Orpheus is my fear. Getting this great sounding interface, but having problems to make it work without glitches.

My MOTU is working OK, not the best in the world, but good enough. I would be very sad if I blow 5k on the Orpheus and then find out it is of less performance than my current Ultralite (in terms of compatibility, efficiency).

Everybody praises RME for compatibility, stability, etc. But then again, some people say the sound is comparable to a MOTU.

I'm still in the same dilemma... Well... A nice part of buying some new gear is making the decision, investigating, comparing. If anybody has any more experience with either Orpheus or RME (FF800), your input will be appreciated.

[chemelneme]

By the way guys, I'm talking alternatively about the FF800 and the UFX, because I plan to buy the UFX (or the Orpheus) but I know very few people will have access to a UFX at this point in time. So comparisons can only be donde to the FF800.

I hope the UFX is much better than the FF800, certanly we'll know in a couple of months.

[neirbod]

Originally Posted by chemelneme

For some reason, even though I´ve never used one, I think the UFX will perform much better in terms of stability, efficiency

So...I'm still a bit undecided. I don´t want to spend 2k on the RME and think I could get a better sound with the Orpheus. On the other hand, I know that RME makes the best drivers and has great performance/stability.

Is it possible for you to do the same blind test, between the FF800 and the Orpheus, using more tracks? .

Taking each point in turn:

1) I have no doubt the UFX will be very stable and efficient. RME has a proven track record and is rightfully considered among the very best in this regard. If for some reason there is a glitch early on, they'll issue a driver update fast. That's the way they operate.

2) I personally prefer the sound of the Orpheus to my FF800. But the difference is subtle (at least at low track counts, which is what I use) and for me not worth the cost of giving up the RME stability. I hope the UFX has the best of both worlds.

3) I returned my Oprheus, so I can't do any more tests.

[neirbod]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

I certainly plan never to purchase another firewire interface. Too many problems in general.

Not trying to sound like an RME fanboy, but I honestly have never had a problem with my FF800 and a laptop with a TI firewire chipset. It has been 100% stable, and I have used it for location recording for many years.

[chemelneme]

Thank you very much Dave! You are making my decision process much better and easier.

According to the following review:

AudioMedia - November 2010

The UFX has both excellent quality AD/DA conversion and preamps. I leaning more towards the UFX now. But I'll hold on a couple of months till more reviews come out.

[rumleymusic]

Not trying to sound like an RME fanboy, but I honestly have never had a problem with my FF800 and a laptop with a TI firewire chipset.

RME is definitely the exception to the rule, they have their own firmware based "chipset" inside the new UFX to counter problems that could arise.

Everybody praises RME for compatibility, stability, etc. But then again, some people say the sound is comparable to a MOTU.

RME interfaces are noticeably cleaner than the MOTU. One of the reasons I sold my 828mk3 after about a year.

[chemelneme]

Hey Daniel! You are right about the MOTU, my Ultralite's inputs are a bit noisy (hiss), nothing unusable, but still drives me nuts.

This is another of the reasons I want to upgrade. Good to know RME performs well in this department.

[claying]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

RME is definitely the exception to the rule, they have their own firmware based "chipset" inside the new UFX to counter problems that could arise.



RME interfaces are noticeably cleaner than the MOTU. One of the reasons I sold my 828mk3 after about a year.

I'm another user who upgraded from MOTU 828mk3 to RME Fireface UC. The RME is better than MOTU on stability! Stereo mix output coutinue without drop out to my backup Zoom H4n despite disconnection of USB. I place reliability before sound quality as all my projects are live performances.

[philper]

I've just increased my understanding of the RME and Prism boxes by about 100% by reading this thread--thanks to all. I've been a MOTU-driver for many years and many many live recordings, but am looking for a change when the economics allow it. One very tempting path is a console and some JoeCos (I do mostly 20+ track recording), and the other is FF800. I'm not buying any more stuff w/ FW400..... To the poster who said that the mic/preamp/convertor quality seemed to matter more when there were more tracks up: right on, dude.

phil p

[chemelneme]

Claying, thanks for the input. Soundwise how does your rme uc compare to your old motu? Noise/preamp/converters quality? Cheers.

[claying]

Originally Posted by chemelneme

Claying, thanks for the input. Soundwise how does your rme uc compare to your old motu? Noise/preamp/converters quality? Cheers.

The RME FF UC and MOTU 828mk3 are the only interfaces that I have ever used. Because of the limited recordings I did at different occasions, I have not yet had the chance to compare them A-B. Apart from RME's reliability and well written driver/software mixing panel, I can't be sure that RME is superior than MOTU on the other things.

[Dave Davis]

Of course you can get the same level of sound quality, bulletproof operation and get used to new features/tools being added to your old boxes (just got an IR remote control feature last month that didn't exist when shipped) with an MH ULN8 (8 great pres) or LIO8 (line level converters)... If the cost is too dear, their classic 2882/2D performs on par with Digi HD192s (spec/measurement wise; clock and conversion might be a tad better up to it's max 96K rate).

I've used mine to record orchestra and chamber performances with no chance of re-takes and it's never let me down. I generally use Console alone for location work, and leave the DAW off. Much easier on the mac, drives, and highly reliable compared to any modern daw due to simplicity and closeness to driver.

If this is for Windows, please ignore - it's no help there.

[rumleymusic]

If this is for Windows, please ignore - it's no help there.

I don't remember if the OP said he is on Windows or Mac. Though if he were considering an Orpheus and a Mytek 8x192, then Metric Halo wouldn't be too far out there. Wish they made windows drivers though.

[fafalio]

for me it is incredible that a sound card from prism sound gives the last driver upgrade on start of 2010!
a friend has orpheus and loves its converters but it is connected always in digital to ff800 to avoid black out during recording...
nobody can sells a sound card at that price range (but the same also if the sound card would be few dollars) without thinking to driver stability! money is money, and client have to be preserved in his investiment.

it would be very interesting to know about the new UFX, on the conversion point of view...

another friend have bought a mytek 8 channel. the conversion is at mastering level, and the driver for the firewire connection, for now minimal, are solid. i think mytek in the next future will give us a more complex driver interface (as totalmix :-) ???.

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by fafalio

a friend has orpheus and loves its converters but it is connected always in digital to ff800 to avoid black out during recording...

Or better yet (imo), connect your Orpheus via adat to an RME RayDat PciE card. Much lower latency & cheaper. And RME is reputated as having best Mac drivers around! thumbsup

[KRAZY BEAT]

This is what Orpheus Downloads still look like.

I mean are they here or gone ????
C'mon i need to be able to use my pro tools 9 with my orpheus at 96K just like my freinds with RME cards. And i even pay way,way more than they did.

Helloooooooooo Prism,i mean it doesn't wotk at 96K sample rate.
Orpheus Downloads
Software Downloads File Download
Control Panel software V1.06 & drivers for Windows. (Released 5 Feb 2010) ZIP / 5.8MB download
Control Panel software V1.07 for Mac OS X (PowerPC or Intel, released 10 Feb 2010) ZIP / 3.8MB download
Firmware V1.06 with Windows loader. (Released 5 Feb 2010) ZIP / 1MB download
Firmware V1.06 with Mac OS X loader (PowerPC or Intel, released 5 Feb 2010)
Thank you

[rumleymusic]

Most high end companies savor quality but fear progress. They are usually too small to focus on feature development and will only update to fix major issues that can be fixed.

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by fafalio

it would be very interesting to know about the new UFX, on the conversion point of view...

The UFX sounds VERY good. Maybe not as good as the Prism but I wouldn't hesitate to prefer it's stability over anything less in that department. I've used it as a live mixer on some jazz gigs now, while recording to Reaper. I've also recorded choir music in surround and a lot of other stuff. The interface is rock solid and it sounds impressive.

Pulling the USB plug when recording in Reaper just halts the recording. All files are still intact and it continues to pass audio through Totalmix without a single click.

I m o it's the perfect remote recording audio interface. The only thing missing now is direct to USB recording, which should be out soon now.

[neirbod]

Funny to see this older thread resurrected. I am still using my FF800 and am looking to upgrade in the next month or so. The *only* options I am seriously considering are 1) the UFX, or 2) keeping the FF800 and using some external converters. Two key points keep me staying with RME. First, I have used the FF800 for live recordings for many years without a single problem - now *that* to me is impressive. Second is that backup systems become very simple given the reliable and effective way the FF800 (and the UFX, I assume) handles things like signal loss to the laptop.

My clients won't notice a 0.03% improvement in audio quality, but they will notice a dropout. That's why I could never use the Orpheus unless they develop some substantially improved drivers.

[neirbod]

Originally Posted by Mats H

The only thing missing now is direct to USB recording, which should be out soon now.

Hi Mats,

Just noticed this statement. Have you (or anyone else) heard of when RME will make this feature available? I am also very curious to know the capabilities of this USB port. I hope is allows multitrack recording direct to an external hard drive. Anyone have information to share?

Dave

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by neirbod

Hi Mats,

Just noticed this statement. Have you (or anyone else) heard of when RME will make this feature available? I am also very curious to know the capabilities of this USB port. I hope is allows multitrack recording direct to an external hard drive. Anyone have information to share?

Dave

In this forum thread they're shooting for april: RME User Forum / frage: USB port (front panel) with a beta version to be released before that.

I've heard march/april being mentioned elsewhere too. Eagerly awaiting!

[neirbod]

Thanks for the info, Mats. I don't speak German, so I appreciate you translating that RME forum post!

As I recall you were controlling the UFX using a WiFi connection from your iPad and some kind of MIDI controller so you could do a live mix from anywhere in the audience. If this system is stable enough it would be very useful, although I would be concerned about its reliability. I am curious to know how that system is working for you.

As an aside, it seems you were fortunate to get the UFX so early. Here in the U.S. they are hard to find and online dealers keep pushing back the date when they expect to have them in stock. However, they will gladly accept your money while you wait!

Dave

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by neirbod

Thanks for the info, Mats. I don't speak German, so I appreciate you translating that RME forum post!

As I recall you were controlling the UFX using a WiFi connection from your iPad and some kind of MIDI controller so you could do a live mix from anywhere in the audience. If this system is stable enough it would be very useful, although I would be concerned about its reliability. I am curious to know how that system is working for you.

As an aside, it seems you were fortunate to get the UFX so early. Here in the U.S. they are hard to find and online dealers keep pushing back the date when they expect to have them in stock. However, they will gladly accept your money while you wait!

Dave

Hi Dave,

I was quite pushy toward my dealer and was fortunate to be one of the first ones in Sweden to get it. It did however take a month... Too bad about the wait, I feel your pain :/

Now I got totalmix with the ipad working on my PCs but not on the macbook, so I used a Behringer BCF 2000 instead. The ipad seems to be able to control Reaper though, so it's probably just a bug in an early version of Totalmix. Since then, I've updated the drivers so I should probably give it a go once more.

I like the tactile feedback with the BCF, though I am tied to being close to the DAW. That's kind of a bummer when setting up stage monitors. It would be nice to use both