In ear monitors

[AdmissionRegret]

Hey guys,

I'm a vocalist in an ambient rock band and have a fair bit of touring coming up and am quite frankly sick of the lack of foldback or not having any what so ever at shows. The venues we are playing range from 100 capacity to a few thousand.

Just after any advice/recommendations & experiences with in ears.
I'm currently looking at purchasing either; Sennheiser ew 300 IEM G3 or something within the SHURE PSM 400 - 600 range.

I'm currently leaning more towards the Sennheiser ew 300 IEM G3 as it's a lot cheaper and my budget isn't huge. I aleady have Shure SCL5 E5 Sound Isolating Earphones to go with whatever system.

I pretty much have zero knowledge so any help would be much appreciated.

[solo-bration]

I've been using the Shure PSM 600 for the past 6 or 7 years. No complaints. I use pretty cheap buds too (Shure E3's or something). I have no way of comparing this system with the Senn stuff, but... for the PSM 600. I can say: you'll LOVE in-ears and never want to play without them once you are used to them. I'd recommend going with a wireless system (for more flexibility) and also bring any cables you may or may not need (XLR-1/4", turnarounds, etc. Soundguys (especially in those small venues) are sometimes lazy about (or maybe intimidated) by in-ears, so I try to make it as easy/fool-proof as possible. They also like it when you tell them about your in-ear set-up ahead of time (and not during your 3 minute line-check)

[Soundgeeza]

In ears are GREAT, but you CAN sometimes feel a little isolated from what is going on ... rest of the band ... audience... it is common on huge gigs to have mics directed to the audience to feed back to the performers, so that they don't feel like they go ... HELLO CLEVELAND and there is no answer because you have your isolating ears in...

I personally have found that I prefer to just use ONE ear but this is also because I play guitar and I just HAVE to hear what's coming from the amp...

in ears also help prevent you over-reaching with your voice...

Good luck ...

[RawDepth]

There are a a few issues you should know about...

They tend to isolate you from the ambient room sound. That is, you hear what is amplified but not normal room sounds. This may be a good thing for some singers. Many users find that when using in-ears, they have trouble hearing people talking to them between songs. Some use a lapel mic to fix this.

Floor monitors not only play loudly but they also vibrate your body to some degree. Some people report that the sensation of that low-end energy is not present with in-ears. You will still hear the low frequencies but you won't feel it anymore. This may take some getting used to. It may even give you the false feeling that you need more bass on everything you hear.

In-ears are designed to run in stereo. Some of those low budget systems in small clubs may not have two spare monitor channels to dedicate to you. You may need to travel with a mono-to-stereo headphone/cable adapter to get the sound in both ears. Some I.E. units do have a mono switch to solve this problem.

On another note:
You really should travel with a band engineer. It is common for traveling bands to have their own sound guy but not a PA system. Then they insist in writing that the club provides an adequate PA, either built-in or rented. It should be part of the contract. You can even provide a "rider" page, which is a list of specific gear that your B.E. (band engineer) will be needing to do his job.

Good luck.

[AdmissionRegret]

Thanks for the tips guys.
A band engineer is not really an option as it is out of our budget as we're only a small band. So a system that is relatively self manageable is obviously something that I should be looking out for.

[Thumper]

Well, then you need to buy yourself a monitor console, a split (to send mic signals to the house console and your monitor desk), hopefully a couple of ambient mics so you don't feel too disconnected... It's a deep investment to do it right.

Or just buy a Shure PSM 400 thing and plug your vocal mic directly into that, and then feed the house rig through the built in split. You're only going to get your mic in your ears though...

Bands have been suffering with horrible club stage mixes since the invention of speakers. If you have any talent at all, you should be able to pull it off with a walmart boom box as your foldback. Perfect? No. Workable? Damn well should be...

[KCnoTek]

Our 5 piece band uses a JamHub TourBus for monitors now, after constantly griping about each other's levels. Each of us has a channel number, and run our mic & instrument signal to it. We each end up with our own mix, and can use in ears or powered speakers out of our channel's output. Useful for recording and practicing, too. $700, but hey, step up.

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by KCnoTek

Our 5 piece band uses a JamHub TourBus for monitors now, after constantly griping about each other's levels. Each of us has a channel number, and run our mic & instrument signal to it. We each end up with our own mix, and can use in ears or powered speakers out of our channel's output. Useful for recording and practicing, too. $700, but hey, step up.

You could do that with a cheap / 2nd hand analogue desk.

JamHub just puts a simpler interface on it.

[misterlong]

I have been using the sennheiser for a number of years now, had the first edition and now use a G2.
Seems to work a treat and just do the job! I got custom Futuresonics moulds done for me but if you have the phones sorted that is all good. You also need to take all the leads you will need to get signal from the monitor desk to the transmitter. Don't expect them to have them there.

That's the gear sorted, now you have to deal with the sound! A good monitor man is seriously something to think about! The number of times I have gone on stage and startyed playing (particularly at festivals) when we have not used our own monitor man, and heard absolutely nothing, is scary.

My advice is to firstly have a monitor there on your stage plan as backup if possible. Like someone here said, you can at least then feel a bit of the sound. It fills in the low end.

Also in advance of the show, print up a sheet which tells the monitor man what you want in your mix and how much (use a scale of 1 to 5 say; you can always turn each individual mix down or up as a whole. You can do this for all of the members of the band and indicate which are their mixes on the stage plan. This will really speed things up.). at least then he has an idea of what is most important and you can tweak it as you go along.

If you are all wearing in ears, it is a good idea to put a mic or two on the crowd and mix it into your monitor feed, that way you can hear them and get a bit of vibe. I was playing to about 40,000 people once, where we didn't do that, and it sounded like there was only about 3 people who were enjoying themselves! I assure you they were all making a load of noise, but it got me a bit paranoid for a while there!!

A good in-ear mix is amazing, although you have to get used to the levels being quieter, so rehearsing in advance is really important, but a bad one will totally ruin your show! You can't even rely on the acoustic sound, so make sure you can get it right and you are used to it in advance. and please dont be tempted to run it too loud, it will kill your ears just as quick as a loud stage!

Hope this has helped

Long

[Puffer Fish]

I used them for most of a year and going into the experience, I thought in-ear monitors would be my on-stage savior. And when it was right, it was amazing. However, in my experience, without an engineer who knows what you need in your mix, the in-ear monitors can lead to a complete disaster. Think about what a lot of these folks here are saying.... most everyone here is not trying to discourage you from using the in0ear systems, but the lack of interaction from the audience and the rest of the band is a real problem if you are the front person in the band--it will really disconnect you from what is going on unless you have ambient microphones.

Now, adding ambient mics sound like a really simple task, right? Well, who will set them up? The house sound guy will often be like, 'no way dude, that's not part of our sound rig'--so if you want ambient mics, you had better bring them and set them up yourself.

Likewise, if you can't count on having someone who knows your mix and knows what you need, you will really have to set up your own mixer with a transformer isolating splitter and dump into that mix whatever you will need. Now, I do not know very many sound guys who would dig you messing around with the lines running into their snake, because inevitably, no matter how competent you and your people in your band are, no matter how good your intentions, something is going to get plugged into the wrong jack at some point and then the sound engineer will REALLY love you---

So anyway, after my in-ear jaunt, which like I said, when it was right it was totally awesome, I have moved back to working harder to get more out of the wedges on the floor. That means the same stuff as always--lower stage volume from the rest of the band so what is coming out the floor wedges does not have to compete with the amps and drums. ALWAYS a good idea. Another I picked up that does not always get used, but can be very helpful is a tiny powered wedge from TC Helicon: TC-Helicon | VoiceSolo VSM-300 XT - Amplified Personal Vocal Monitor w/Controls and EQ

My little TC Helicon wedge has a breakout box that I can pass my vocal mic through so it supplements whatever crap stage mix is already available. It has a line-in as well, so you can take a signal from a monitor mix. It only gets used when the stage monitors suck--and in those situations (more often than they should happen, I will add) you can bet big money, the person behind the desk would be giving you a really awful in-ear mix.

[sadworld]

looking at the psm 400 system by shure... comes with or without the little mixer... do i need the mixer? what do i gain? can it be used without it? thanks. matt.

[Remoteness]

You must ask yourself if you will be needing to blend different instruments or aux sends or will you be just getting a feed from the MON or FOH desk.

Originally Posted by sadworld

looking at the psm 400 system by shure... comes with or without the little mixer... do i need the mixer? what do i gain? can it be used without it? thanks. matt.

[hbphotoav]

+1. My perception is that it's easier to get a useable quick rough mix through wedges than through IEMs, especially with an unfamiliar 3rd party FOH/MON engineer. What might be of interest is one of the several headphone amps (like the Behringer, Samson, or Furman) which take a straight overall "band" mix into their "main" input, and a second source for the "more me" aspect into each IEM channel. Like the Puffer Fish said...

IEMs are great tools IF one has the buds, the amp, the knowhow, and the time to get them right.

Otherwise, they can suck mightily.

One man's opinion...

HB

[mixedupsteve]

I love IEMs. Keeps the stage volume down, what's coming out of the wedges anyway, and that makes you sound better. I would reccomend you get a monitor mixer like the A&H Mixwiz Monitor. You can run it yourself from the stage or have a monitor person do it for you. They have built in splits so its all thats needed. The house personnel shouldn't mind since sound check is even easier for them cause you do you own monitors.

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

I love IEMs. Keeps the stage volume down, what's coming out of the wedges anyway, and that makes you sound better. I would reccomend you get a monitor mixer like the A&H Mixwiz Monitor. You can run it yourself from the stage or have a monitor person do it for you. They have built in splits so its all thats needed. The house personnel shouldn't mind since sound check is even easier for them cause you do you own monitors.

+1 on that as well. We run one every Sunday morning with a rotating band roster (40+ people in the rotation, 8-10 per Sunday) with eight wired IEM feeds to the stage boxes and four to Senn G2 RF systems. It's nice having the GL3800's internal Auxes back for lobby feed, FX and other "as needed" sends. The MixWiz Monitor splits are clean, and, as you might surmise, run "pre" everything else. We found ours used for $1295... My only complaint is that we're limited to 16 inputs... 15 when the talkback is in place... of the 32-34 inputs we normally use on Sunday morning (24 are dedicated band; 5 RF mics; 2 stereo computer audio feeds). In the MixWiz, drums are K/S/OHL; one bass line (direct... the mic'd cabinet is blended in for the house mix); one keys line (summed keys most Sundays). Two E Gtrs; two A Gtrs; four vocals... We usually have one "spare" channel for the odd mandolin/fiddle/cello... after that, it gets dicey, deciding who's in the MixWiz mix with what, and who gets a dedicated "me" mix from the 3800's internal auxes.

I'd suggest only that you rehearse with it a lot before you show up at a gig and ask your band to "mix themselves"... it's not difficult... but there are an enormous number of additional variables if you're moving from house-provided wedges to your own IEM mix. But, if the instrumentation is stable and the playlist reasonably tight, you should be able to get real close on presetting the whole shebang, especially if everyone's on IEMs.

HB

[bishopthomas]

I'm not sure I saw it mentioned (maybe alluded to but not directly stated) that you will probably want more of a "mix" in IEM's than you typically have in your foldback monitor. With both ears in (don't do just one as you'll have to crank it and ruin your hearing) there will be only what you send to them. If you are not miking all the instruments at this point then you might have to change that. If you play guitar then you'll definitely want to mic your amp, probably at least 3 mics on the drums, etc. Be prepared for your channel count to go up, which may or may not be possible with the venues you are playing.

Where are you located? Maybe we can recommend a place for you to try them before committing to the purchase.

[timothyclee]

The great thing about being a singer and using IEM's is if you just sing, you have one input to worry about. You can have a small 4 space rack with your wireless mic reciever, mic splitter, and small mixer. You could then have a custom input output panel made for the back and this would be light and easily integrated into an existing band setup. Now if you are a drummer or guitar player you start to really get into connection issues. Also the Singer usually always has a dedicated aux mix from FOH even in small venues. In my experience if you are well knowleged on how your personal monitor system is incorporated into various types of situations the FOH and Monitor engineer will be very happy. It's when you show up with a cable and gear "mess" that problems happen. Be sure you know how to trouble-shoot your own system as well.

[HangOnVoltaire]

I have read up on some of the models discussed in this thread; are they easy to find used? I am a singer and looking to purchase the best I can find without breaking my bank. Although a veteran musician, I am (ashamedly) a gear n00b---so I can use all the advice anyone wants to throw at me.
I am looking for IEMs strictly for live performances and rehearsals. Someone please point me in the best direction! =)

Thanks!!!

[Puffer Fish]

I know I have said this before in so many words... only go this route if you have someone to do your monitor mixes for you who you trust or you know will do a good job for you. Otherwise, it could make things worse for you rather than better--you will only hear what comes through the ear buds and if the mix is not right, then you will have problems. If it is right, then the IEM are awesome.

[jagalactic]

I have been using a Shure PSM400 system for about 10 years, and it has worked great 99% of the time. Occasionally I would get drop-outs, and changing channels usually cleared it up. Eventually the transmitter started to get flaky (power on & off randomly - hey, it's 10 years old and probably needs to be opened up & repaired somehow).

However, my PSM400 is old and no longer legal with the FCC (this is not a problem I'm too worried about, but unless you're getting a great deal you should probably buy stuff that isn't illegal).

Anyway, I've just upgraded, on a trusted pro's recommendation, to a Sennheiser G3 rig. It is well built and has a lot more features & control than my 10 year old shure.

But there is one thing that's bothering me: the G3 receiver's basic background hiss is (subjectively) twice as loud as the PSM400 receiver. This is a disappointment, although it is realistically still pretty far below monitoring signal level. You hear it when you turn on the unit but keep the volume all the way down, and it doesn't matter whether the transmitter is on or not. Both my Shure and Senn units have a similar hiss, but it's a lot louder on the G3 Senn.

I have not tried the Shure PSM900 - I went with the Senn G3 based on a good personal recommendation and the price advantage. It would be very surprising, though, if the PSM900 receiver was noisier than their 10 year old mid-range receiver.

My .02,
John

FWIW I'm using Alien Ears custom dual driver earbuds.