24 Tracks for remote?

[tourtelot]

I am being very careful here to not talk trash, because this may have been a very unique experience. I bought a JoeCo BBR1-B and was really disappointed. I am returning it.

That leaves me with the question of what of the still available 24 track HDD recorders would be my best choice. It seems that the folks on this forum are slightly tilted (and I mean that in the best way<g>) towards the Alesis machine with the XR converters. It, overall, seems to me to be the best in a number of ways, although I am not at all ADAT I/O. My plan calls for analog I/O right now, but if I have to go digital, it would be way better to be able to go D25 AES, where the Mackie is clearly a better choice.

What I am most concerned about is customer support and not backing myself into the obsolescence corner. The other choices look "plasticy," semi-pro, or really expensive (Sadie).

Am I missing anything here? Any advice and experience will be helpful.

Thanks.

D.

[Gerax]

I hear you...
I can tell you that I've been using an "obsolete" Mackie SDR2496 for the last 6 or 7 years of my remote gigs and if reliability is your concern (and it should be) I'm here to say that it never let me down a single time... I didn't even had the need to call tech support a single time. You open it up and see it's as simple as a deadly stupid/one purpose Celeron PC with built in I/O...So even if you are not an ADAT fan, I'd say check the MDRs and HDRs out there on the used market. They can be had for reasonable money, often they come already loaded with cards. Though I'd say that the SDR, while less feature rich, is rugged and tough enough for road use. It's OS is built into a solid chip, not on drive like the other two units. Plus, it's only 3 RU while the others are 4 and runs cool and almost quiet (fan can be replaced for a noiseless one).
If you are afraid of ATA drives availability you should check for spares in shops. I've got myself a few 250 to 500 gigs and I have all my still working drives from a few years back, so I'm pretty much covered for several years more (and I can count drive failures with that unit on a single hand in more than 7 years...).

Hope this helps

L.G.

[fifthcircle]

What is it about the JoCo that's causing you to return it? I'm considering one, but seeing reports like this is a bit of a concern.

As for 24 tracks on location, it is a rough thing to do portably.

Here, I'm using an RME Digiface as a front end for Reaper on a Macbook Pro (to be used as nothing but a bit-bucket). Would do boom recorder, but it is no longer being sold.

It has been very stable, and I feed it off of my converters (lynx aurora splitting 16 channels to the console and to the recorder) and an O1V96 to give me 32 record ins on 24 tracks.

However, the minuses... No real timecode w/out burning tracks. The laptop and interface are small, but the rest of the rig is not.

I'm not a huge fan of the Alesis, but it is reliable and for an all in one box, it is one of your only choices out there without going Tascam or Radar.

--Ben

[tourtelot]

Thanks guys. The HDD recorder is going to serve as a "catcher" for 3 MH ULN8 preamps on stage. The split to the desk, a Yamaha DM1000, will be sent to a MacBook and Reaper (Reaper rocks!). The MH A/Ds are awesome so converters in the recorder aren't a problem, but it swings me toward the Mackie because of the AES input card.

More will be revealed<g>.

D.

[fifthcircle]

If you have 3 ULN8's, why don't you just use the Metric Halo software for capture? It is really stable, no-frills software. My only complaint with it is the naming conventions on takes- the takes are in individual folders with all tracks named exactly the same. Means that when you drop everything into a DAW, you have potential for issues with file naming. Keep files in their folders and you're fine, but it is a bit of a pain...

You could still have your split and running a couple laptops for your rig wouldn't take a huge amount of space...

--Ben

[surflounge]

My vote goes for a 17" Macbook Pro MADI setup with Metacorder/Boomrecorder and RME HDSPe ExpressCard.

[tourtelot]

Yes, I suppose I could do it with MIO software, but I am sort of an old-timer that still places a lot of (maybe un-realistic) faith in hardware recorders. Started with a Nagra III<g>.

What is the model of the Radar 48K setup? Is it THAT much better than the Mackie or the Alesis? Don't forget that I will be using the MH converters so I only really need a bit-bucket (great term!) I saw a Mackie HDR 24 96 on eBay for around $700 and could buy what looks like an infinite number of I/O cards in the range of $100 each. Seems pretty flexible, and also seems pretty reliable.

D.

[tourtelot]

Anyone who has questions about my experience with the JoeCo should PM me. I am being very quiet about this since I think that people who trash manufactures on line are doing all a dis-service. All at JoeCo, the US distributor and the vendor have been more than accommodating and professional in their dealings with my issues.

D.

[studjo]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

I am being very quiet about this since I think that people who trash manufactures on line are doing all a dis-service. All at JoeCo, the US distributor and the vendor have been more than accommodating and professional in their dealings with my issues.

D.

very fair thumbsup

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

Yes, I suppose I could do it with MIO software, but I am sort of an old-timer that still places a lot of (maybe un-realistic) faith in hardware recorders. Started with a Nagra III<g>.

I have had stand alone boxes crash too... The hardware crash is not just limited to the domain of personal computers. All these boxes are basically single purpose computers and are prone to bugs and malfunction like anything else.

I had numerous problems with the Tascam MX2424 in the day that ranged from hardware (power for the disc drive routed through the motherboard and was prone to cold solder joints) Timecode drops, the machine would freeze up when using a hard drive that had been formatted on a computer (even though it was all HFS+)

Any disc based medium will need a good backup. If you are confident enough in your mix skills for that to be a 2-track, great. If not, a multitrack backup is a very good thing to have.

All that being said, I'd seriously look at giving the Metric Halo software a try- runs pretty much using the DSP in the interface and is very stable. (and you already have it if you have the ULN8) I've never had a glitch on long-form recordings with it. My only issues with it deal with the naming conventions of the files. And even then, to solve that, there is a ultility floating around that renames the files and moves stuff around so that it works well in any other DAW.

--Ben

[noamraz]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Would do boom recorder, but it is no longer being sold.

Boom recorder is back!

VOSGAMES - Boom Recorder
"Due to popular demand, I have reopened the store for Boom Recorder."

thumbsup

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by noamraz

Boom recorder is back!

VOSGAMES - Boom Recorder
"Due to popular demand, I have reopened the store for Boom Recorder."

thumbsup

That is very good news. It is an awesome application.

D.

[ebs.audio]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

That leaves me with the question of what of the still available 24 track HDD recorders would be my best choice. It seems that the folks on this forum are slightly tilted (and I mean that in the best way<g>) towards the Alesis machine with the XR converters. It, overall, seems to me to be the best in a number of ways, although I am not at all ADAT I/O. My plan calls for analog I/O right now, but if I have to go digital, it would be way better to be able to go D25 AES, where the Mackie is clearly a better choice.

We have 3 Alesis ai4 converters that live in a rack with our HD24XR. It's not the most elegant solution in the world, but it's been rock-solid.

Most commonly, we use it as the backup recorder on larger recording sessions, with a Yamaha DM2000 as the console and a computer running Sequoia via MADI as the primary recorder. Having the XR upgrade has been a life-saver on more than one occasion, though.

Coincidentally, we use the Metric Halo software on old powerbook G4 and a 2882 as the multitrack recorder on our weekly indoor concerts that rarely go above 8 channels. I've had very few issues recording this way, and file management for bringing those recordings into Sequoia has been painless as well.

What interests me most about this thread is that we do a lot of concerts outdoors, and I don't really feel comfortable using a laptop as my recorder at a mix position where eventually everything gets rained on. It's too bad it sounds like the JoeCo box doesn't live up to the hype, because its features look like they could be a very good match for our needs.

-Evan

[heyman]

Not to be slanted toward the Radar.. I own one.. bought it used in 2004.

The thing has locked up once in 6 years.

The converters are great. I think the old radar 2 converters sound just fine. Mine has the Nyquist 24 converters.

Easy to use with session controller.

Rock solid tech support from real people, not endless phone messages.

You may be surprised and want to sell your other converters.
Best of luck.