Is there a shop steward in the house? Union rules.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by boojum

Steve, yes and no. Elijah is 44 tracks. HFA says for 25 to 2,500 the fee is 9.1 cents plus $13 to $15 processing fee "per song." This could work out to $664 if per song is "per track" which I fear it is. I do not think they are going to offer a mechanical license for $15.091. I am hopeful but seriously doubt that this would happen.

If they would ever park their butts in their office I would be able to get an answer to this. All they are so far, for me, is a website and an answering machine. That's no way to run a business. I just called at 4:00 EDT. I have tried other times, too. Pfffft!

Most of the time we deal with Harry Fox via the WWW. We too have had a lot of problems getting a hold of them by phone. Maybe it is a one person office???

[mpdonahue]

This may be beating a dead horse, but my suggestion as is the same as Ben's: Get out of the replication business. I have never in the past 20+ years even thought about dealing with mechanicals because I don't make copies and sell them. Give the required number of copies to the business manager/conductor, thank them and go on to the next job. It really is not the domain of the recording engineer to be dealing with this. If you are recording a concert, it is not a problem. If you're making a record, the record company should be dealing with it. It's when you try to be the record company that you get into trouble.
Sorry of the rant.

All the best,
-mark

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by boojum

Steve, yes and no. Elijah is 44 tracks. HFA says for 25 to 2,500 the fee is 9.1 cents plus $13 to $15 processing fee "per song." This could work out to $664 if per song is "per track" which I fear it is. I do not think they are going to offer a mechanical license for $15.091. I am hopeful but seriously doubt that this would happen.

If they would ever park their butts in their office I would be able to get an answer to this. All they are so far, for me, is a website and an answering machine. That's no way to run a business. I just called at 4:00 EDT. I have tried other times, too. Pfffft!

It's 1.75 cents per min or any part thereof if the "song" is over 5 min. The piece would be considered one song I believe and I don't think it matters how you index it on the CD.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by mpdonahue

This may be beating a dead horse, but my suggestion as is the same as Ben's: Get out of the replication business. I have never in the past 20+ years even thought about dealing with mechanicals because I don't make copies and sell them. Give the required number of copies to the business manager/conductor, thank them and go on to the next job. It really is not the domain of the recording engineer to be dealing with this. If you are recording a concert, it is not a problem. If you're making a record, the record company should be dealing with it. It's when you try to be the record company that you get into trouble.
Sorry of the rant.

All the best,
-mark

Mark, I could not agree with you more. I would that life were so simple. There are not a lot of people willing to take on this group. For me it is part of my tariff for working my way out of purgatory.

The effort for putting together a short run is the same at the mix end as for a long run. The fellow who had been doing the copies before was making a royal mess of it. I gave him the two CD masters of Messiah and he thought they were the some and had only one pressed. Folks started complaining that all they got was the first part so he had to get copies of the second master made, at home, slowly, over a period of months. I suppose that my helping out is a classic case of "No good deed goes unpunished" but I am at a stage in life where I am giving back as much as I can.

I suppose the best deal is to have someone appointed their business manager so that I can offload the legal liability to the group through that person. I would still be doing about the same amount of work but be relieved of legal burden, ;o)

All good points.

Folks, once again I am grateful for the combined wisdom and the extended Q&A on this board, this happy congress of recordists/recording engineers. You know I am stumbling through all of this. Hopefully we can all come away from this thread a bit smarter.

If I ever get a response form HFA I will let you know. Do check out there list of employees. Everyone is an Executive VP and not in the office. Maybe the can hire me as their PNW Executive VP!

[kstrauss]

Originally Posted by boojum

It is a legal and ethical obligation honored more in the breach. I have not yet gotten a response from HFA for a ballpark idea of what a short run mechanical license, less than 2500 units, would cost.

Unless it is a new arrangement a mechanical license is not required for pre-1923 music, however a fee may need to be paid to he publisher depending on the source of the sheet music. If the performing organization owns the sheet music then no payments are necessary since the purchase price encompasses any kind of use. If the music is rented, then the rental contract will need to be revised or appended to allow a CD release. If the music is borrowed, then you're in a grey area, but as long as it is a short run of discs and not sold commercially, then you should be OK.

The right to use a particular published edition of a musical work is different than mechanical license. The mechanical license covers publishing, that is, royalty payment to the composer and/or arranger. So if you were performing a new arrangement of Elijah, then you would need to obtain a license from Harry Fox (or directly from the publisher). If you rented the score and parts of the original edition, then you would have to pay an additional fee to the rental company, usually the publisher, for permission to release a CD of the live performance. And as I said, if the music isn't rented, then you're good to go. BTW, this holds true for radio broadcast - rental contracts are very specific regarding use.

In your case, it all depends the source of the sheet music. If it is rented, then you need to contact the publisher for an updated rental contract. Otherwise you should be OK. Harry Fox won't be able to help with this.

[joelpatterson]

Then there's the totally illegitimate, entitled-to-piracy perspective. Jaw, meet floor.

I recorded a college octet performance last Fall, in honor of the aging founder of the place's vocal a'capella tradition. Delivered copies to the organizers.

They got a call from a boarding school out to raise money to endow a building in his honor. They wanted to LIFT THE TRACKS RIGHT OFF THE ORIGINAL CD and make their own to sell as a fundraiser.

That's right, you heard me-- boil down their own edition to sell.

Brave, meet new world. Completely powerless to stop it, meet acceptance. And still Harry won't answer his phone.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by kstrauss

Unless it is a new arrangement a mechanical license is not required for pre-1923 music, however a fee may need to be paid to he publisher depending on the source of the sheet music. If the performing organization owns the sheet music then no payments are necessary since the purchase price encompasses any kind of use. If the music is rented, then the rental contract will need to be revised or appended to allow a CD release. If the music is borrowed, then you're in a grey area, but as long as it is a short run of discs and not sold commercially, then you should be OK.

The right to use a particular published edition of a musical work is different than mechanical license. The mechanical license covers publishing, that is, royalty payment to the composer and/or arranger. So if you were performing a new arrangement of Elijah, then you would need to obtain a license from Harry Fox (or directly from the publisher). If you rented the score and parts of the original edition, then you would have to pay an additional fee to the rental company, usually the publisher, for permission to release a CD of the live performance. And as I said, if the music isn't rented, then you're good to go. BTW, this holds true for radio broadcast - rental contracts are very specific regarding use.

In your case, it all depends the source of the sheet music. If it is rented, then you need to contact the publisher for an updated rental contract. Otherwise you should be OK. Harry Fox won't be able to help with this.

Konrad, thanks so much. I am glad you chimed in. Another resource on this wonderful board. I believe the scores were rented, so the story goes on. But at least it is easier to understand.

Thanks again.

[boojum]

Follow-up: I am making it clear to the director and president thath there are certain legal obligations which must be honored and I am not the guy to take the fall for this. I need someone inside their group to sign off on any of this. I am just the guy with the mics. That's all.


Thank you, all of you, who have helped with this.

Now if I can just get he strident edge off the brass in the recording.