Mic'ing a soloist in a hall; help!

[Matt Reckinger]

A friends daughter will be performing her classical vocal pieces with a piano (12 ft Steinway) accompaniment in a nice hall . I've gotten hornswaggled for another pro bono gig getting this recorded. I'll grab my old adat and digimax and slap up some mics but I could use some help on the right way to approach this type of recording.
I'm way out of my league in this attempt but I've got a few mics (most of which embarass me in this company) . Which should I choose and how many and where should I place them.

As for condensors; I've got LDC cardiods, figure 8's , and small and large capsule omnis. I imagine a single cardiod discretely placed above the singer and a widely spaced pair of omnis somewhere back in the room. (is that problematic with audience noises ???) Maybe ortf omnis above the singer and no room mics would be better. At the risk of becoming a joke: any help greatly appreciated .

Matt


If it helps; my humble mic cabinet includes: tlm103 , AT4033, ADK: TC , Vienna, A51, & ST(fig8). For omnis I've got 2 Rode NT2s. For SDC's ; matched Octava mc012 with 3 caps. (lots of dynamic mics too & a single old RS PZM )

[Jim vanBergen]

As someone who has done this kind of recording a hundred times, may I suggest a pair of omni or cardioid (depending on just HOW MUCH room you want, a LOT ot just a LITTLE) spaced wide, at least 6' back from the singer, centered on her, at 6' high, 6' apart.

Skip the room mics. If you cant get get enough singer over the piano, add a large diaphragm cardioid 3'-4' in front of the singer at 4' height and slip the track to match the sides in time afterwards.

JvB

[fifthcircle]

FWIW, while widely spaced mics can work well, I would avoid it for a vocalist if it is your only pair. You'll get a hole in the center of your image and if your vocalist moves at all, you'll get an image that will bounce from side to side.

I'd take a standard stereo pair (ie X-Y, ORTF, M-S, Blumlein) and place it as Jim mentioned. 6-8 feet out and 6 feet up. As a performance, most singers are quite sensitive to the number of mics in front. If you need more singer than piano, bring the height down and aim straight on. Most singers I work with would drop a log if I tried to put a spot mic in front of them in a solo recital situation.

Back to the pair, though... Personal preference wins out. Depends on the mics you have and use or what kind of sound you want.

Oh, and room mics in a live performance usually get you more audience noise than ambience. Great idea for a session, but not necessarily for a concert.

--Ben

[mds]

Drop a log...nice....hahah

I agree with with Ben about the stereo pair approach and the uselessness of a room mic in a recording with a crowd. I usually just get more whispers, coughs, candy wrappers, and cell phones....

Based on your mic cab I'd go with the MK012s with cardoid caps in an ORTF or XY config. Do some listening tests before hand to see which sounds better...ORTF can be unfocused in some situations, XY can sound dull in some situations, but one or the other should work great.

Good luck!

[Matt Reckinger]

Thanks all,

Lots of agreement on that 6 foot out 6 foot up idea. Ill try it .

Gee maybe her dad would spring for a matched pair of schoeps cmc 621 s and a gordon pre and we could make this thing audiophile style.
dream on,
Matt

[fifthcircle]

The height and distance out will depend on your room. You should probably think in acoustical terms. Place the mics in the mid-field of reverberation. ie not too close and not so far that you are only getting reflected sound. You want a combination of direct and reflected.

Recording acoustic music is as much about micing the room as the performer.

--Ben

[jnorman]

ben maas always provides excellent advice. i would only add one caveat - it is all too easy to get too much reverb on your tracks in a large hall, and there isnt any way to get rid of it once it is there. i would recommend working the mics as close as you can comfortably get to the performers, even if you have to add in a touch of digital verb during post. a nice ORTF pair is certainly a proven approach to this kind of recording, but if it was me, i would likely spot both the singer and piano in case i needed it later (if, as ben notes, you can do it without irritating the vocalist).

[tourtelot]

Here we go, bring back a long-sleeping thread, but I find myself in a similar situation.

Smallish church (never been there), 40 member choir with a (hero) soloist. Live performance so stands in the sightlines will be a problem. Considering an ORTF pair (Schoeps) but thinking that I might spot the soloist "just-in-case." Small communications issue as Korean is the singer's native language so answers to my questions about configuration and venue are a little sketchy. My experience with choirs has always been without a soloist.

Any thoughts? I can probably put my hands on most of the usual mics (I have a pretty good locker full, but only one LDC). BTW, I am taking everything (!!) in case I can fly the mics, but I doubt that will be possible.
I don't think that will fly, hahaha. (Sorry!)

Thanks.

D.

[fifthcircle]

Unless there is an easy way to fly, I'd just make sure the client can deal with the stands. I have a stock speech that I give about how we're looking at a venue where recordings can look good or sound good. It is their choice. Most of the time, for what the recording costs, they want it to sound good.

As for the solo issue- is your soloist coming out in front of the choir? If they are singing from inside, the solo mic issue becomes a non-issue. You can't put mics inside the ensemble so it will be what it will be.

I usually go with a 3 point system for choral work- a stereo pair in the center with omni or subcard outriggers. That way I get dig for solos etc... and the open- nonfocused sound the choir directors love. Occasionally, the solos really need a mic, then I'll try to be as unobtrusive as possible. Smaller stands, smaller mics. My go-to solo mics are my Sennheiser 8040's and Schoeps MK41.

Just a couple thoughts...

--Ben

[boojum]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

<snip>

That way I get dig for solos etc... and the open- nonfocused sound the choir directors love.

<snip>
--Ben

Thank you, Ben, for that one. The chorale director I work a lot with has no real interest in mixes where the singers can be heard separately and just loves the DPA 4061's which are just about perfect omnis. You explained that for me.

So nice to have real champions to listen to. And there are so many here.

L8R thumbsup

[GLouie]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

Here we go, bring back a long-sleeping thread, but I find myself in a similar situation....

Good luck on that gig Doug - I think I referred them to you!!

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by GLouie

Good luck on that gig Doug - I think I referred them to you!!

First off, thanks for that Gary. Very kind.

Yes, I was considering my (not the norm but seems to work) Schoeps MS pair (may make it a double MS for fun) and two Schoeps omnis in a little wider than "norm" spaced pair. Mk41 for the mid mic, but I have an Mk 4 as well if the 41 is too spotty.

Of course, in the same performance (but at a different time) is a solo cellist and a violin trio, violin, viola and piano, so there will be other configurations as well. MS pair will be good for that as well, but I may try and put up two spots; one for the strings and a Jecklin disk pair for the piano.Good practice for me but these jobs sure don't pay any bills<g>. But I love doing it anyway.

D

PS. Great to have a resource like GS to bounce ideas around. Thanks to all!

[recordinghopkins]

I work regularly on campus, as one of a handful of students that record and archive every single student and guest recital all year long. I never have a problem with the solo vocalists' levels over the Steinway-D, but I often wish for spot mics when I get solo classical guitar onstage. We have an AKG stereo mic flown, but it ends up over the player's head, facing downstage. They cerainly don't want me putting a pair of 81's in front of him, so I was thinking.....

How about a shotgun mic? Put it on a 1ft stand at the front of stage....

What do you think?

[JonesH]

Try it, by all means. But most shotgun mics I've used except maybe those from DPA/Schoeps/Neumann tend to sound unnatural and somewhat... well, weird.